Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about FTL.

 

[Morrus]

With the replicability crisis and the politicization of science we are going through right now? I wish I was as optimistic.

Just means the Chinese will do it instead.

 

[Umbran]

But, "great survival trait"? What's the proof of that? Vitually every other intelligent species, chimps, whales and dolphins, etc. are endangered. Hardly seems like a great survival trait.

There are over 1400+ animals on the Endangered Species List in the US (kept under the auspices of the Endangered Species Act of 1973). That's only the animals, and only within the US territory - so not the open seas, or other countries.

There's a strong scientific argument that we are in the midst of an extinction level event, caused by humans. Evolution optimizes a species for "normal conditions" in its area. It does not prepare any species for extinction level events, which entail extreme conditions, rather than the norm. So, being endangered really doesn't speak to the value of the traits animals have in their normal context.

And, again, the only species we've seen with tool using intelligence is us. One. One species.

Um... no. That's factually incorrect.

All the great apes (chimps, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans) and several monkey species use tools. Ravens and crows use tools. Otters use tools. Elephants use tools. There has been tool use seen in octopi and dolphins.

 

[Istbor]

There are over 1400+ animals on the Endangered Species List in the US (kept under the auspices of the Endangered Species Act of 1973). That's only the animals, and only within the US territory - so not the open seas, or other countries.

There's a strong scientific argument that we are in the midst of an extinction level event, caused by humans. Evolution optimizes a species for "normal conditions" in its area. It does not prepare any species for extinction level events, which entail extreme conditions, rather than the norm. So, being endangered really doesn't speak to the value of the traits animals have in their normal context.



Um... no. That's factually incorrect.

All the great apes (chimps, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans) and several monkey species use tools. Ravens and crows use tools. Otters use tools. Elephants use tools. There has been tool use seen in octopi and dolphins.

Oh top of those each using tools, some exhibit the ability to make their own tools. Showing even greater capacity for cognitive thought, when problem solving. We are not the lone intelligence on this planet. We may be the most wide-spread and destructive however.

Being intelligent does not mean the tendencies that we have to ever try and expand our knowledge is shared. We could be looking for other peoples out there, and find that a simple life with nature is more to their liking than shaping their planet as we have.

I don't know whether we will meet other inhabitants of our galaxy or universe or not. However, I am pretty certain just given the expanse that we cannot even observe, there are other minds out there wondering the same as us. Are we alone?

 

[Umbran]

Climate change, AI, more advanced weapons of mass destruction... our intelligence could prove to be the exact opposite of a survival trait.

With respect, the thing that is currently endangering us is not our intelligence, but our lack thereof. Our current predicament is based in emotional responses, not reasoned and intelligent responses.

 

[Morrus]

With respect, the thing that is currently endangering us is not our intelligence, but our lack thereof. Our current predicament is based in emotional responses, not reasoned and intelligent responses.

Agreed - but the emotional responses wouldn't matter if we didn't have the ability to make the tools of our own destruction.

 

[Umbran]

Agreed - but the emotional responses wouldn't matter if we didn't have the ability to make the tools of our own destruction.

That's tautological, in that *any* ability of an animal can be the cause of its destruction. You can walk? Well, then you can walk off a cliff, fall, and die. Do you blame your legs for walking off the cliff? Silly legs! I should never have had legs! Should have stuck with fins, because fins couldn't have had me walk off a cliff! Moving onto dry land was my problem. Nobody ever dies in the water, right?

 

[Morrus]

That's tautological, in that *any* ability of an animal can be the cause of its destruction. You can walk? Well, then you can walk off a cliff, fall, and die. Do you blame your legs for walking off the cliff? Silly legs! I should never have had legs! Should have stuck with fins, because fins couldn't have had me walk off a cliff! Moving onto dry land was my problem. Nobody ever dies in the water, right?

Sure. I agree.

 

[Ryujin]

That's tautological, in that *any* ability of an animal can be the cause of its destruction. You can walk? Well, then you can walk off a cliff, fall, and die. Do you blame your legs for walking off the cliff? Silly legs! I should never have had legs! Should have stuck with fins, because fins couldn't have had me walk off a cliff! Moving onto dry land was my problem. Nobody ever dies in the water, right?

That would only really be applicable if legs developed to the point that there was a very real danger of kicking the species into extinction.

 

[MoonSong]

Just means the Chinese will do it instead.

And their demographic timebomb?

 

[Shasarak]

There's a strong scientific argument that we are in the midst of an extinction level event, caused by humans.

I thought that science already debunked that claim.