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D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The Star Wars novels were explicitly not Star Wars canon though. Lucasfilm was Clear that only the Movies and the Christmas special were canon, novels, games, comics etc. were just stories inspired by Star Wars, essentially Professional fan fiction.

This has changed since Disney took over the franchise and now all Star Wars Products will be considered canon, but that doesn't change the non-canon status of the older novels.
Before the Disney purchase, it was more complicated than that, actually.

First, the Clone Wars cartoon was also primary canon, right alongside the movies, and still is.

Then, everything else broke down into tiers of canon, which basically translated into mutable canon with a hierarchy. The novels were never just "not at all canon", or equivalent to professional fan fic.
 

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Jago

Explorer
Approaching this from a Star Wars perspective, because honestly The Forgotten Realms and all that is not really my raspberry jam. I mean, I enjoy them, I love things like Neverwinter Nights and such, I enjoy all the stories about Waterdeep and Icewind Dale ... but it's not really my bread-and-butter, I don't know that much about it.


But goddamn do I know everything about Star Wars. This is my setting, from the farthest reaches of The Rim to the darkest depths of everyone's favorite ecumenopolis. And as a Star Wars fan, canon for us definitely took a huge spin when Disney announced "Legends" versus "Canon": everything we know is basically wrong. Sorta. They're sorta bringing in Legends material into the Canon (Thrawn being featured in Rebels is 100% awesome, albeit a little wonky), but it really did make a lot of my friends playing Edge Of The Empire form 2 camps.

One group basically said "No, old canon entirely, that's where our stories are based", while the other said "Mix of both." The 2nd group was quite adamant not to just entirely throw away Legends, but they much preferred the stories of The Clone Wars and Rebels compared to, say, the novels and comics detailing the Clone Wars and the Rise of The Empire.



Needless to say, for most fans (not saying all, but most I know) who grew up with those books, those games and stories, Canon is pretty important. It's what we know as Star Wars, it is Star Wars. It's hard to picture it without the expanded stories of Wedge Antilles and Rogue & Wraith Squadrons, or the pure snark of Ben Skywalker, or knowing that Ferus Olin was basically the most Jedi-Jedi of all Jedi to have ever Jedi'd.


With all that said, I've come to a new way of thinking: Keep the spirit, not the word. Star Wars canon is not law, it is not some immutable object that needs definition and concrete answers. Every story adds to the mythos, every aspect of Legends and New Canon helps expand the Galaxy just a bit more.

If someone is thrilled about The Clone Wars or Rebels, I'm all for them, because they're sharing in the fandom I love. Is it specifically what I know about Star Wars? Well, sorta. I enjoyed TCW towards the end, and Rebels definitely looks interesting. I enjoyed Episode 7, and I'm glad to see a bunch of people coming to things like Edge of The Empire because they want to play the next Finn or Rey, when I was doing so because I wanted to play Tycho Celchu or Quinlan Vos.



So is the concrete canon important to me? Well, more and more, I'm realizing not really. A Jedi is a Jedi is a Jedi. I'm going to have different interpretations of what it means compared to others, but as long as the same Spirit is evoked, I don't think it matters if someone wants to play a Zabrak because they enjoy the idea of playing a species that has such a strong connection to The Force and wants to try and balance their natural aggression with being a proper Jedi, or they want to play one because "Darth Maul is cool!"

So I guess the answer is no: as I get older, Canon becomes less and less important as a setting ideal, and more important as a Feeling. Something instinctual, where I can look at Star Wars and know that there are a thousand ways to evoke the flavor of that setting, and "my way" is not the right way because there is no right way.




Save for someone trying to play a "Grey Jedi" and not a Grey Jedi. Grey Jedi just means "Chaotic Good", damnit, it doesn't mean "I literally draw upon a force of living, sentient evil but I swear I'm totally a good guy and this will in no way corrupt me eventually even though that's basically what always happens no matter which canon you look at, save for Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr in 2 very specific instances where apparently the rules do not apply to them because Video Game."

I will not budge on this.

Most everything else is cool, though.






But not that.
 

What does it matter if I change something by ignorance? Eg in my recent Dark Sun sessions, I've described the templars of Tyr being dressed in red. I have no idea what the canon is for this, but I needed something in the course of play to describe an NPC; and red seemed a good colour for sinister templars in a desert city.
If you're running a game, it doesn't matter.

If you were writing a game supplement "Templars of Tyr" I'd assume you were doing the research and compiling all the past references. Small things (colour of attire) don't matter much, but there are big details that can shift. (Unless it was a major plot point, like how templars of Tyr wear blue because those of another city state wear red. With blue being the colour of the city-state of Tyr...)
A bigger change would be something like the origin of the Templar order, common behavior, or some goals. If suddenly the Templar were formed at a very different time or are doing very different activities than established in past products, it creates an annoying contradiction.

And as for changes by the author/publisher: if I prefer (say) folio GH to From the Ashes GH, then why can't I just use the version that I prefer? Or another GH example: the City of GH boxed set has Shield Land refugees in GH, and the later From the Ashes GH mostly ignores that. I don't know if that was deliberate or careless on the part of the later authors, but why would I care? I just use the version that I like (in my case, I've used those refugees, and the Horned Society war on the Shield Land, in two different campaigns).
The Greyhawk examples are two weak examples.
The first was a deliberate change. Canon wasn't ignored, the world was just altered. Which is an entirely different issue. It wasn't a retcon: the changes were (mostly) explained. There was a continuity of events between the folio and From the Ashes. Really, it meant there was *more* canon.
And because there was a change in era, you could ignore or not.
The second is largely an omission. It's not mentioned in the second, but I doubt it says there are not Shield Land refugees there or that there never were. The one does not cancel or change the other.

Compare this to... oh, the new cosmology of 4e. Because it's a convenient example.
There was not transitional event between 3e and 4e (save for the Realms, and that was localized). And yet the entire planar structure changed. For everyone. Suddenly there were primordials, the Dawn War, angels could be good or evil, outer planes were planets in the Astral Sea, etc. Why? Because someone liked that cosmology better and wanted a better backstory for the universe, despite the ones that already existed. Which I don't approve of.
Now, I like much of the World Axis cosmology: the Feywild, the Shadowfell, the Elemental Chaos, primordials, etc. But making it just mandatory and assumed is disrespectful for what came before.
It was needless. The World Axis could have been presented as the background for the Nentire Vale setting. Primordials could have been added into existing giant lore. Titans could have remained grecco-roman with primordial titans being a new addition. Authors writing for an established brand or property should BUILD on what was already written, not knock things down and start from scratch. The writers of D&D are not its owners, they're just stewards of the brand and should be respectful for what came before.

For another example, the 3.5e book Lords of Madness, gives an entirely new origin for Mind Flayers, completely contradicting the 2e book Monstrous Arcana: The Illithiad in numerous ways. And at the same time created a contradiction that didn't mesh with the origin of the two Gith races.
What that tells me is that someone either didn't do their homework, or thought their ideas were so cool they didn't have to try​ to reconcile them with what came before.
A book like Lords of Madness should have been comprehensive: the one-stop-shop for all illithid lore, compiling tidbits from a myriad different sources. You buy it to reap the benefits of the author's work and research compiling existing illithid lore. Instead, the author didn't do the research and now you have to do the work of reconciling two pieces of incompatible lore.

These are extreme examples of the issue, but the emphasis the point.
Small errors in canon are easier to ignore, but getting the lore outright wrong or just inventing crap rather than looking it up means someone just didn't do the work. Which means everything else mentioned could also be contradictory. And if you're looking at a sourcebook with a glaring continuity error, it casts doubt on the rest of the book. What other errors are there? Will this contradict something that has already been established in my game? You just don't know...
 

the Jester

Legend
I use a homebrewed setting and care a great deal about the canon of it. When running a published setting- something I really haven't done since the 90s- I am not too much of a stickler for the published canon, just for being consistent with what I've used and what I use in the future.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Do you care about canon in RPG setting?

I approach it like this:

The design of a game is connected with the design of a setting. Different settings allow you to be different kinds of heroes, tell different kinds of stories. The "canon" in an RPG setting isn't accidental, it was intentionally put there for a purpose by someone who hopes it to be used in a certain way at the table, and contributes to the overall feel of the setting. So I want to respect canon, to learn about it, and to learn from it, and to use it to take my game in different directions and tell different stories.

Canon isn't sacred to me, but I respect the work done to develop it. I change it with care and consideration, and try to use it as a launching point rather than as back-fill. I don't want to play Generic D&D if I'm using a specific setting, so I try to lock in on what elements from a setting contribute to the vibe I want and go from there.

A bit of an example is in my Astral Campaign, which is fusing 4e lore (runepriests, invokers, "deva"ttas, shardminds, the Living Gate, the Lattice of Heaven, etc.) with more traditional D&D lore (timeless silvery void in between spaces with githyanki and dead gods). Wherever I can, I'm respecting 4e's lore: there are divine runes out there. There are those who hear the voice of their deity. There is a place where the githyanki originally came to the Astral Plane. In addition to dead deities, there are ruined dominions. There was even a "Dawn War Like Event" in the distant past, which has echoes in the present (and, for this campaign, is providing one of the sources of tension between the Athar and the more religious beings of the plane).

The fact that 4e has specific lore for its races and classes matters to me; it tells different stories than you'd tell without those races and classes. I want to explore those stories and those spaces. If I didn't want to, I just wouldn't use those game elements.
 
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Flexor the Mighty!

18/100 Strength!
Not really. When I run a GH base game its always back in the 1e box set era. Now that I'm running something in the FR again I'm not paying attention to much outside the scope of the campaign and novel cannon is meaningless really.
 

MonkeyWrench

Explorer
For me, what happens in the campaign, and the needs of running a game, always takes precedence over setting canon. DMs should feel free to alter a setting as they see fit for the game they are running. RPG settings are meant to be played in, and the fact that no setting survives contact with the party is a good thing.
 

For another example, the 3.5e book Lords of Madness, gives an entirely new origin for Mind Flayers, completely contradicting the 2e book Monstrous Arcana: The Illithiad in numerous ways. And at the same time created a contradiction that didn't mesh with the origin of the two Gith races.

And a lot of people thought the LoM version was a lot cooler.

That's the thing about "canon." If you're too slavishly devoted to it--and I mean this from the perspective of a writer/content producer, not just a gamer/reader--then you miss out on opportunities. Sometimes, a later idea is better than one that's already been accepted.

(And yes, "better" is subjective. But that doesn't automatically make it arrogant to think your new idea is better than a preexisting one, especially if everyone else on the project/in the company agrees, as does much of the fanbase.)

Now, if you're dealing with something that is mostly a set of stories--a novel series, a series of movies, an ongoing TV show--having an idea you think is better isn't enough. Canon's a lot more important to such things.

But D&D? Is a series of pick-and-choose ideas for you to build your own games first, and a platform for prewritten stories second. So no, I don't have a problem at all with things like the conflict between the Illithiad and LoM.

Canon can be cool, canon can be helpful, but canon can also be stifling.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
And a lot of people thought the LoM version was a lot cooler.

That's the thing about "canon." If you're too slavishly devoted to it--and I mean this from the perspective of a writer/content producer, not just a gamer/reader--then you miss out on opportunities. Sometimes, a later idea is better than one that's already been accepted.

(And yes, "better" is subjective. But that doesn't automatically make it arrogant to think your new idea is better than a preexisting one, especially if everyone else on the project/in the company agrees, as does much of the fanbase.)

Now, if you're dealing with something that is mostly a set of stories--a novel series, a series of movies, an ongoing TV show--having an idea you think is better isn't enough. Canon's a lot more important to such things.

But D&D? Is a series of pick-and-choose ideas for you to build your own games first, and a platform for prewritten stories second. So no, I don't have a problem at all with things like the conflict between the Illithiad and LoM.

Canon can be cool, canon can be helpful, but canon can also be stifling.


It seems that in gathering data for 5E, WotC discovered that more people prefer things the way [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] describes: consistency in presentation from WotC, even if they put their own twist on things at home. The tendency of 3E to ignore or overwrite D&Disms willy-Billy really seems to have come home to roost with 4Es approach, and how it was broadly received.

I only got into the Realms in 5E, and use the SCAG, the 3E FRCG, ignore the Time of Troubles and make up what I feel like. So, I enjoy an internally consistant approach by WotC, but clearly don't live or die by canon.
 

Mercule

Adventurer
But D&D? Is a series of pick-and-choose ideas for you to build your own games first, and a platform for prewritten stories second. So no, I don't have a problem at all with things like the conflict between the Illithiad and LoM.

Canon can be cool, canon can be helpful, but canon can also be stifling.
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(Yes, I XPed you, too. I like this statement enough to do both.)
 

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