Do you let your clerics have all the spells?

[caudor]

Clerics can prepare and cast only a certain number of spells per day no matter how big the pool is. A bigger list just adds variety/options, and makes selection harder (or funner, depending on how you look at it).

I'd allow 'official' spells. Then when it is my turn to play, my cleric can use them too

 

[Zelligars Apprentice]

There is a word you need to use more often on your players. It will solve many of these problems immediately.

That word is: NO.

If a player comes up to you 5 minutes before the game, hands you a stack of printouts and expects you to approve them for his character immediately, that is a perfect time to use the word.

I'm sorry if this comes across as snarky. It's just that I have seen too many posts where DMs feel victimized because they have been hit over the head by their players with some new rule/feat/spell/PrC/whatever from the latest sourcebook. This is a button with me.

Regardless of who published the book, YOU have final say on what goes in, and what doesn't. Period.

It's your game. Always remember that.

To answer your original question, although clerics mostly do healing, protection and buffs, they have always had some offense ability as well, especially at higher level.

In my game, if a player wanted to use cleric spells from a new sourcebook, I would first carefully review the spells. Those spells I did allow, I would introduce to that character slowly. Remember, clerics only request spells to prepare from their god. The god (you) can deny these requests.

I like the idea of going on a quest for lost clerical knowledge, and may have to use it someday.

 

[greymist]

I don't even allow the clerics to have access to all of the spells in the PHB!

I don't think there is a problem in adding new spells to a game, but you, AS DM, should be deciding which one are allowed and which are not. And even then, the spell might be available in your campaign world, but it might not be available to all clerics.

If a player handed me a pile of spells that he wanted, there's no way they would be allowed in the game starting in 5 minutes. And I would probably have the player choose several top choices and I would review those for inclusion. I like the idea of knocking some PHB spells off their "list" in exchange. I did something similar, although I did not do it on purpose. I simply got rid of some PHB spells, and at some point the cleric's player asked if he could use a spell he found somewhere, which I allowed.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

There is a word you need to use more often on your players. It will solve many of these problems immediately.

That word is: NO.

If a player comes up to you 5 minutes before the game, hands you a stack of printouts and expects you to approve them for his character immediately, that is a perfect time to use the word.

I'm sorry if this comes across as snarky. It's just that I have seen too many posts where DMs feel victimized because they have been hit over the head by their players with some new rule/feat/spell/PrC/whatever from the latest sourcebook. This is a button with me.

Regardless of who published the book, YOU have final say on what goes in, and what doesn't. Period.

It's your game. Always remember that.

To answer your original question, although clerics mostly do healing, protection and buffs, they have always had some offense ability as well, especially at higher level.

In my game, if a player wanted to use cleric spells from a new sourcebook, I would first carefully review the spells. Those spells I did allow, I would introduce to that character slowly. Remember, clerics only request spells to prepare from their god. The god (you) can deny these requests.

I like the idea of going on a quest for lost clerical knowledge, and may have to use it someday.

I agree with you Zelligars Apprentice in regards to players dumping info on you 5 minutes before the start of the session (or during the session!) and expecting you to approve it there and then. My players have to give me some reasonable notice (like from 1 session to the next, preferably longer) if they want to use something outside of the books I have approved as ok to use. Dropping something on me at the last minute is probably the least effective way of getting me to approve something.

Olaf the Stout

 

[arscott]

Make him put his money where his spellcasting is:

Step one: None of this "summaries from the internet" crap. If he wants to cast the spell, he has to purchase the book that contains it. <sneaky justification>If somebody's dishonest enough to upload illegal material to the internet, how can you trust him not to alter and interpret the material to further his own best interests?</sneaky justification> This'll force your guy to actually invest his own cash if he wants to play an overpowered character. And if he buys anything, with any luck it'll be the spell compendium, which nixed or fixed the most broken spells.

Step two: Set up a list of 'core resources' from which the player may draw spells for free. A good guideline is to use the PHB plus any book that defines the game (such as the main Eberron book for an Eberron campaign, or the Expanded Psionics Handbook for a psionic-focused campaign) plus the book that the player's class comes from (for non phb classes). The player is free to use these spells, but any other spells have to be earned seperately (I'd suggest the research rules).

 

[Harmon]

PHB 3.X

Some spells from other books but the Play has to ask, and they have to fit the character- no Healing spells for the Water/Travel Domain cleric.

 

[Mechnomancer]

This is why i, as the dm, set which books are allowed before the campaign starts. If someone want to add a spell i'll review it, but not 5 min before a game. What? you already prepared it? Well good news. You can spontaniously convert it.

Just remember one little thing. YOU'RE THE DM.

 

[Greg K]

I don't let individual clerics have access to every PHB spell . I don't even allow every cleric to have access to buffing or all healing spells. In my campaigns, cleric spell lists are deity specific, but clerics get spontaneous casting in return.

 

[Delta]

Do you let your clerics have all the spells?

In the era of Holmes-edition D&D, when there were like 8 cleric spells per level, this made sense. As more and more spells are added it gets more ridiculous.

In my home game I've made divine casters all spontaneous casters, like sorcerers. They have to pick a repertoire and stick to that (from UA: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm ).

On the separate issue of expansion books, there's no-way, no-how I've ever let clerics have access to all the spells in a new supplement instantly and for free.

 

[Dragonblade]

We are playing the Adventure Paths and we allow ALL WotC material from any 3.5 WotC book.

It has NEVER caused a balance problem. One of the reasons we allow all WotC stuff but not material from other publishers is because we trust WotC to make good judgements on what is balanced or not. So far we have not been proven wrong.

We even have all sorts of crazy power combos going and it doesnt affect the game at all. For example, our cleric uses Persistent spell along with Divine Metamagic to cast Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor using turn attempts instead of spells slots. Basically half the party gets Fast Healing 1 ALL DAY LONG.

Is it unbalancing? Not really. Its not fast enough to really grant you more than say 10 hitpoints a combat assuming combat even lasts that long. Mostly what it does is lets the cleric conserve spells and lets us do more before we have to rest. It also helps players avoid death because when they do go down, they quickly stabilize. Seriously, what is more fun, the party that cleans two rooms and has to camp because the cleric used all his daily spells healing everyone after fighting the monsters? Or the party that can explore half the dungeon before camping?

We even had a TPK in our last adventure because we weren't being careful. I wouldn't call that broken. I have been playing D&D for almost 20 years. I know a thing or two about balance. If the PCs walk all over your monsters because you allowed in some WotC spells outside the PHB, I would say its probably not so much the spells that are the problem, but rather the opponents you throw against the PCs probably need to be optimized a bit. And your monster tactics may need to be improved.