Doctor Who s8e12: Death in Heaven [spoilers]

[Ryujin]

Direct physical digitization, like a Star Trek transporter on steroids, but with consciousness?

 

[Bagpuss]

Well the Matrix on Gallifrey was used for storing the consciousness of dead Timelords and was sort of part virtually reality part pocket dimension, everything in there seemed completely real. So if there was a way for something physical to get in, then it makes sense that something in might be able to get out.

Note the Master copied the Key of Rassilon before, so I expect that's what the bracelet was.

 

[Umbran]

Note the Master copied the Key of Rassilon before, so I expect that's what the bracelet was.

It may have been a pale imitation of the Key. The real Key of Rassilon would not have been a one-trip-only thing.

 

[Umbran]

Clara seems to rebound a little too quickly. But, that is TV for you, where tragedies are resolved in a blink. A person could be completely devastated and need months to recover from such a loss.

Real people do put on a brave face and deal with the world after losses. Inside, she may still be a wreck.

I do wonder why the Doctor responded the way he did after visiting Gallifrey. Because he can't go back? Or won't? Something about Gallifrey perhaps?

There's no reason he can't go back - they clearly don't hold what has happened against him too much, as they gave him a whole new set of (goodness only knows how many) regenerations.

I think it is a simple fact of non-presence. Gallifrey wasn't there. The Mistress lied.

 

[Umbran]

Here's where I'm confused: Missy's cyber-control bracelet. She gives it to the Doctor, he tosses it to Danny, Danny uses it to command the Cybermen to fly up with him into the clouds and self-destruct, destroying the clouds and their Cyber-pollen. Okay, so far so good. But in my mind, the cyber-control bracelet should then be destroyed at that point.

I think it is akin to the Key of Rassilon - just not as powerful (since it isn't the full Gallifreyan Matrix, it doesn't need to be). It allows people to enter and leave the Matrix.

If you have a problem with the Nethersphere, it should be - "The boy Danny sends back - where did he get a physical body?"

 

[Morrus]

I do wonder why the Doctor responded the way he did after visiting Gallifrey. Because he can't go back? Or won't? Something about Gallifrey perhaps?

Gallifrey wasn't there. He opened the door and there was just space. So, yeah, something about Gallifrey, I guess!

 

[Morrus]

An interesting tidbit buried in there - The Doctor has been married 4 times (all deceased) and has children and grandchildren, all missing, presumed dead.

 

[Bagpuss]

If you have a problem with the Nethersphere, it should be - "The boy Danny sends back - where did he get a physical body?"

If the key allows Missy to enter the Nethersphere, several times it appears, by transferring her physical being to data, and then her data back to physical, it seems possible it could transfer the boys data to a physical body.

Also it's a one time thing because the bracelet can only effect one wearer, and or the Nethersphere is running down on power.

 

[Umbran]

If the key allows Missy to enter the Nethersphere, several times it appears, by transferring her physical being to data, and then her data back to physical, it seems possible it could transfer the boys data to a physical body.

Yes, but Missy starts out physical. We are not sure if she's *physically* present in the Nethersphere, or just an electronic representation. The dead within the Nethersphere are bodieless - the bodies got buried, burned, or what have you. So, where does it get a body for the boy?

Also it's a one time thing because the bracelet can only effect one wearer, and or the Nethersphere is running down on power.

Let's be honest - it is a one-time thing because the plot demands it. Having everyone who is dead - the implication was that Missy was gathering the dead for thousands of years - able to come back is extremely problematic for a planet.

 

[MarkB]

Yeah it makes very little sense that bit, for example what is Missy doing in the Nethersphere talking to the AI construct and welcome some people, if it is just a datacore?

The purpose of the Nethersphere was to make peoples' 'afterlives' sufficiently unpleasant that they would willingly abandon their own emotions. I'm pretty sure Missy would have greatly enjoyed taking part in that process.

Why does she vapourise him in the same way she does everyone else if he is just a data construct and not a real person?

Presumably the simulation is sufficiently true-to-life that killing him that way still works. And given the level of technology involved, the fact that he was a data construct doesn't preclude him being a person.