Doctor Who SE04 EP09: Forest of the Dead (spoilers)

[horacethegrey]

I can only point out that your own over-the-top emoting smacks of the same kind of generalization you accuse me of. You went on passionately about how terrible the character in question is without qualifying your opinion. Not that I even addressed you personally to begin with, but you certainly left the matter open for folks to fill in the blanks as to why you so loathe the character.

All right mate, you want to know why I don't like Davros? Here's why: I think by and large he's useless. That's right. Useless. There's no logical reason for me as to why this character should be still around when he'd served his purpose in Genesis. The guy opened a proverbial Pandora's Box upon the universe when he created the Daleks, and ended paying for it with his life. It was the ultimate dramatic irony, all that he had created ended up destroying him. But then Terry Nation brought him back in equally dreadful Destiny of the Daleks, thus cheapening whatever dramatic consequence Genesis might have had on the series. And here's another thing, his continued presence cheapens the Daleks in turn and makes them look incompetent. How can we be convinced that these roaming pepperpotts are the greatest menace the universe will ever know, when they have to defer to this cripple on a roaming chair? The daleks were frighteningly intelligent and cunning long before they brought Davros back. So what was the whole point of bringing him back?

The one thing I've always loved about the Daleks was their monotony. Every single Dalek you encountered was the same hate driven squiddy alien inside a death dealing machine. There was no emo dalek, happy go lucky dalek, rock and roll dalek, etc. They're a nightmare vision of a race with no individuality to speak of, coupled with an irrational need to hate everything they perceive as different from them. In my mind that makes them superior to similar races such as the Cybermen and the Borg. So it makes no sense to me why they'd tolerate Davros' presence, let alone revere him.

"Awful dialogue"? What great dialogue ever came out of a Dalek? Wish I could grock you on this one, but it just seems like a bizarre stance.

What's even more bizarre is that you think I just focused on the daleks in Genesis as a basis for my judgement. As I recall, there were other characters in that story. There were the Thals, the Kaleds, Sarah Jane, Harry Sullivan, Davros, and who else? Oh yeah, the Doctor. And the dialog they had was excruciatingly bad. It made the Star Wars prequels look like Jane Austen in comparison.

And no Dalek ever had great dialogue? The Ninth Doctor episode Dalek had some great lines for the Dalek featured in that story. And the Dalek emperor in Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways had some great verbal sparring with the Doctor.

See, that's generalization. How can you be "sure" of what's true for others?

I never said it was true for everyone, just that there were probably others who shared my feelings. And I personally know some people who don't have childhood nostalgia of Doctor Who, yet love the series despite this.

I hate to say this mate. But your offhand remark about people not liking mature stories like Genesis just cause they loved seeing rubber monsters running around was kinda tactless, and verging on insulting. Can't you accept the fact the some people don't like Genesis because they find it a bad story?

 

[Felon]

All right mate, you want to know why I don't like Davros? Here's why: I think by and large he's useless. That's right. Useless. There's no logical reason for me as to why this character should be still around when he'd served his purpose in Genesis. The guy opened a proverbial Pandora's Box upon the universe when he created the Daleks, and ended paying for it with his life. It was the ultimate dramatic irony, all that he had created ended up destroying him. But then Terry Nation brought him back in equally dreadful Destiny of the Daleks, thus cheapening whatever dramatic consequence Genesis might have had on the series.

Ther irksomeness of eternally-resurrected characters is a valid point. Some writers can't seem to do closure. Kinda feel the same way about Jenny's death a few weeks ago and River Song's death in this episode.

And no Dalek ever had great dialogue? The Ninth Doctor episode Dalek had some great lines for the Dalek featured in that story. And the Dalek emperor in Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways had some great verbal sparring with the Doctor.

Well, that's all new-school Doctor Who. The dialogue in general has more punch. When or if we see a new-school Davros, then we can judge the dialogue they give him.

I hate to say this mate. But your offhand remark about people not liking mature stories like Genesis just cause they loved seeing rubber monsters running around was kinda tactless, and verging on insulting. Can't you accept the fact the some people don't like Genesis because they find it a bad story?

Sure, I can accept that folks just didn't like the story. On the other hand, awarding him the title of "lamest villain" is a little harder to understand when there are a lot of really lame bad guys in Doctor Who--many of them just one-gimmick creatures with no personality beyond an inherent evil desire to kill and dominate. I just watched Horror of Fang Rock a couple of weeks back, for instance, and can't fathom why it's considered a classic episode. The villain's a balloon. Davros is more ill-conceived than a predatory balloon? To each their own, I suppose.

 

[Morrus]

Well, that sounds logical, but the mind is as much a result of chemicals residing in the brain as it is electrical impulses, so without extracting the brian itself, in the end the best you can do is make a copy.

Well, if you're not a Time Lord, perhaps.

In Doctor Who Confidential, Moffat actually discusses this; in his mind it's about the soul. He doesn't believe in a soul, and thus considers them to the the actual people; he says that if a soul exists, then they are not.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Spoiler

The problem at the moment is that there is only one Dalek in existence anywhere. They really need to find a way to fix that. I suppose Davros is the easy way to do so. (Perhaps a more effective one would be to point out that when Rose breaks through from one dimension to another, she opens the door for all those Daleks that got sealed off at the end of season 2.)

Spoiler

Assuming that Rose is actually from the other dimension. I'm theorising the Rose Tyler we've seen this season is actually Bad Wolf, aka Rose the Time Goddess from Series One. Even though she technically only existed at that one point in time/space, she could still reach backwards in time, and traces of her existance (Bad Wolf sightings) continued a few times during Series Two. So there's no reason she couldn't haved reached forward to the current Series' timeframe, for whatever reason...

 

[Richards]

I just saw this episode, and I loved it. The only thing I don't understand, however, is how the Doctor managed to open (and close) the TARDIS door by snapping his fingers at the end. I know that River Song said that was something he would be able to do in his future, but was it a latent ability he hadn't known about previously, but could have done at any time? That's the only thing that makes sense to me. (The TARDIS is, after all, partially telepathic.)

Johnathan