Does 5e need its own, original TOMB OF HORRORS?

[Parmandur]

5e is designed with the specific design objective of not killing player characters.

Well, this really isn't true at all: certainly, 5E gives PCs more of a cinematic survival rate, but Perkins is actually pretty bent on giving ample room for player mortality in published adventures even with more generous rules.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well, this really isn't true at all: certainly, 5E gives PCs more of a cinematic survival rate, but Perkins is actually pretty bent on giving ample room for player mortality in published adventures even with more generous rules.

IME L1-5-ish can be quite lethal. Past that though I really didn't get a kill unless it was a TPK, or near TPK.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

HERE IS YOUR EXACT QUOTE:

"Tomb of Horrors was deadly because it was first edition, not because it was Tomb of Horrors.

There was nothing inherently special about the design."

You might have a value judgment about whether it is a good module, or a bad module, and that's fine*

But you are demonstrably and factually wrong with your quote. You stated that TOH was only deadly because it happened to be 1e, not because of the design of ToH.

And that is exactly what I meant. There is nothing special or remarkable about making something BAD. An average 8 year old could make ToH or Plan 9. The only thing remarkable is having the hutzpah to publish them.

And that's the thing with 1st edition: throw any random garbage at the players and it would likely to be lethal, especially if the DM is trying to kill the players.

You can design a bad module in 5e, but it is less likely to be instantly deadly. You would actually have to put some thought into it.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Flexor the Mighty!]

Tomb of Horrors was perfectly designed for what it was, a brutal tournament module that rewards smart cautious play and punishes foolishness, hastiness, or lack of thought. Its not module you can roll your way though for the most part, the dice probably aren't going to save you.

No need to get snippy guys.

 

[lowkey13]

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[lowkey13]

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[Flexor the Mighty!]

I agree; the more I think about it, the more I wonder about the points raised by Umbran (and others) recently. Which is to say- could you even make something similar today?

Because the three biggest obstacles would be:

1. The "meta-game." For lack of a better phrasing, ToH depending on player skill, and player knowledge. It was testing the players, which is now viewed more as meta-gaming by some.

2. Rolling. So many more things (skill checks, etc.) are assumed to be within the province of a roll today.

3. Subverting expectations. This is the biggie; at the time, the usual experience was more hobmurder-y. See an orc, kill an orc, loot the corpse, rinse, repeat. By making the whole module nearly monster-less, it really subverted (then-current) expectations. Not sure how that would work today.

I think #1 is important. If you aren't meta-gaming in this one you are probably not going to get far. If your PC would climb into the black mouth of darkness on the wall willy nilly because "that is just how he is even though i know its not a good idea" well you are not going to get very far. this module more than most is aimed at the players at the table not the sheet in front of them, which is not how people play these days for the most part. You need to be in the mindset of "well a rat bastard DM would probably make this thing a trap since its screaming that its not..." IMO. Its a relic of the olden days of D&D, a style I prefer but I accept has been pushed to the side for the most part. To some that right there is a sign of a bad module, to each their own though. Wish I could have played this back in the day fresh.

 

[Guest 6801328]

#6 (of 10) (Mearls)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davide...dungeons-and-dragons-adventures/#2ce354dc1fa7

I was curious about Mearls list. I'm glad he put Ravenloft at the top: my old gaming friends from the 80's still remember that as the most fun we ever had playing D&D. He also has Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh on the list, albeit at #10. We really loved that one, too.

 

[lowkey13]

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