Does an extraordinary ability that duplicates a feat count as one?

[TessarrianDM]

The arcane devotee prestige class gains the ability Enlarge Spell at 1st level. While the effect is the same, the ability does not require that the spell is prepared in advance, and does not increase the casting time or use a higher spell slot like the feat does. It works more like the Sudden Enlarge feat, but is usable a number of times per day equal to 1 + Cha bonus.

Would this ability count as a metamagic feat as a prerequisite for the Loremaster prestige class?

 

[akbearfoot]

I don't think so. Unless the ability says 'this ability can be used in place of the Enlarge Spell feat' or something similar. One of the books talks about using 'virtual feats' to qualify for stuff, but as far as I know only actual feats qualify for that.


Isn't Loremaster already really easy to qualify for? I mean most arcane casters qualify for that PrC without even trying to don't they?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

No. By RAW, an ability that counts as a feat will say so (as in the ranger's choices).

In my game, I would allow a class ability that is exactly like a feat to count (i.e., something identical to Sudden Enlarge would not work for something that needed Enlarge Spell), but I don't know of any examples. Generally, if an ability is exactly like a feat, the write-up will just give the feat as a bonus.

 

[freyar]

What's really bothered me in monster conversions is the fact that nifty monk-ish feats require Imp Unarmed Strike. While a natural attack is just the same (or better!) than IUS, they don't count as prereqs for things like Deflect Arrows.

 

[green slime]

Officially the word is "no", but... I know I wouldn't have a problem allowing it.

 

[green slime]

Officially the word is "no", but... I know I wouldn't have a problem allowing it.

 

[Jack Simth]

Isn't Loremaster already really easy to qualify for? I mean most arcane casters qualify for that PrC without even trying to don't they?

Yes and no.

It requires three feats, 20 skill points, and some spellcasting. One of the feats is kinda useless (Skill Focus(Knoweledge[Any one]), the other two a Wizard picks up as bonus feats (any two metamagic or item creation). The skill points are knoweledge skills (two skills, 10 each). So yes, a Wizard can qualify pretty trivially, and it pays back it's requirements and then some. Other casters (such as the Sorcerer) have a bit harder of a time.

 

[risner]

Would this ability count as a metamagic feat as a prerequisite for the Loremaster prestige class?

The absolutely only way it would count as a metamagic feat is if it is listed as a metamagic feat in the description of the feat.

 

[pawsplay]

It only counts as equivalent for prereq purposes if it has the same name and the same effect. If it has different parameters or is named something else, it would not count unless it specifically stated it counted. This is the "virtual feat" convention that is not quite a rule.

But that is a different question than what you asked... the Loremaster does not ask if you have Enlarge Spell or even the Enlarge Spell feat. It asks if you have a number of feats of a certain type, and simply having Enlarge Spell is not the same as having any particular number of feats, because it is not a feat.

 

[irdeggman]

Complete Arcane pg 72 has xome text that might give some insight as to how this is supposed to work

Character or creatures that use spell-like abilities or invocations never learn the arcane circumlocutions of logic and mental training necessary for advanced spellcasting. As such, requirements for feats and prestige classes based on specific levels of spells cast ("Able to cast 3rd level arcane spells", for example) cannot be met by spell-like abilities or invocations - not even spell-like abilities or invocations that allow a character to use a specific arcane spell of the appropriate level or higher.

a requirement based on a specific spell measures whether the character or creature in question is capable of producing the necessary effect, as such, innvocations and spell-like abilities that generate the relevent effect meet the requirements for specific spell knowledge.

So the question is what is the prerequisite trying to be met?

Is it a specific effect or a general one?


Now the specific class ability in question is not a meta-magic feat (it does not say that the character gains such and such feat).

It does not duplicate a specific spell or effect. There are no specific effects that metamagic feats duplicate, it is like saying a character must have a fighter bonus feat as a prequisite.

So I would say no it does not count as a means of meeting that prerequisite.

But I could see a DM allowing it to, much like I believe it is a common house-rule to allow the Improved Toughness feat to count as meeting the prerequisite of having the Toughness feat - even though by RAW it does not.