Does anyone actually need the DMG?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What I really wonder is what's going to be worth buying in the DMG 2. Traps, hazards, templates, and artifacts, okay. But we don't really need more DM tips, we don't need more sample towns or dungeons... what else is there?

World Building advice and concepts?

I think there could still be more concepts that require tips and maybe even a structured approach.

- How do I build a mystery adventure?
- How do I build a horror adventure/campaign?
- Memorable Villains and Allies
- Twisting plots
- How can I say "yes, and..." and adapt the story I had in mind to the ideas of my players on the fly?

Not all of this might have easy or generic answers, but I think there is room for some hints there. And I like to see more on that. It's one of the reasons why EnWorld is just so useful - you read tons of good advice, even if you sometimes have to filter through stories told by others.

Aside from that
- Unusual Environments. (More about Aquatic, Air, and maybe Space?)

 

[Argyuile]

Warhammer Quest was a DM-less DnD like game. In the rules it also had a section on how to run games (and campaigns) with a DM.

By your reasoning the next iteration of warhammer quest will just be a book on how to LARP.

 

[Mistwell]

True enough. I was referring to the open handed slap to DM's everywhere that they stuck in the house rules section page 195. The seed is planted. 5E will be 1 rulebook with options for running with a DM, minis, and collectible encounter cards and probably only 2-3 years away. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

It sounds to me like you are overreacting, and looking to take something personally when nothing of the sort was intended.

A minor potential option to play a game without a DM is not a slap to DMs, and is not even a non-role-playing game. Players can and do role play off of each other all the time.

Nor would it even have to be combat oriented. I think a lot of folks are forgetting the non-combat options in the DMG for things like skills and traps. In fact, I think I will put together a 4e adventure that involves no likely combat at all, no miniatures, no battle board, and many 4e rules.

 

[WayneLigon]

True enough. I was referring to the open handed slap to DM's everywhere that they stuck in the house rules section page 195.

I have played in more than one 'campaign' over the years that might as well have been 'GM-less' - A 'GM' that just read from a module and set up the encounters, played the encounters, then moved on to the next set of encounters; I suspect there are not a few groups out there for which this is the norm and they might well have a lot of fun doing it. I wouldn't start designing 5E from one paragraph.

 

[helium3]

I have played in more than one 'campaign' over the years that might as well have been 'GM-less' - A 'GM' that just read from a module and set up the encounters, played the encounters, then moved on to the next set of encounters; I suspect there are not a few groups out there for which this is the norm and they might well have a lot of fun doing it. I wouldn't start designing 5E from one paragraph.

Heh heh. This is SO true.

As a generally "simulationist" DM, I should point out that I LOVE the 4E DMG. It's the only one I've ever read through from cover to cover. Maybe it doesn't have the same information density as earlier editions, but at least it's readable.

Sure a lot of it is information that an experienced DM should know, but sometimes it's nice to be reminded of it.

 

[Ahglock]

Templates. Monster creation rules. NPC creation rules. Explanation of expected treasure handouts. Traps. Skill Challenges. Damage & DC guidlines for stunts. Probably more.

On top of this.

Even the experienced GM can learn something new or re-learn something they have forgotten. And besides a lot of good DMs aren't as good as they think, and maybe reading some advice will perk some ideas which will improve there game.

I've been DMing for 25 years and I know there are plenty of areas in which my game can improve. Good advice can become great advice if you open your ears and actually listen to it.

 

[Aeolius]

OH NOEZ THEY HAS INCLUDED UNDERWATER RULEZ, 5TH EDITION WILL BE ALL IN UNDERWATERZ!

One can only hope. 4e seriously nerfed aquatic campaigns; no merfolk, sea elves, locathah, sea hags, water elementals and more. The storm giant no longer has the ability to breathe underwater.

 

[Dracollich]

What I really wonder is what's going to be worth buying in the DMG 2. Traps, hazards, templates, and artifacts, okay. But we don't really need more DM tips, we don't need more sample towns or dungeons... what else is there?

I'm also hoping for rules on creating new feats/classes/class powers. At the moment its seems pretty easy to do with out making anything too powerful, but like a lot of things in 4E, I may have been doing it for awhile, but it's nice to see it in the rules.

 

[DSRilk]

Info on the math behind the system.

I'm a DM of over 30 years, and I found it very useful. Mostly for the item above as it makes it much easier for me to make homebrew stuff I know won't break down with other rules (including drastically changing the scale of magic in my world). However, there are many other things in the DMG of value (that many others have mentioned) from skill challenges to other things. Honestly, even the "how to run stuff" sections are nice for helping me think of new things I can do to tweak my descriptions and handling of certain events. No, nothing mind blowingly unique, but I don't believe anyone is too old to learn, so well honed as to not benefit from a refresher, or so perfect that they can't find something of value to add to their repertoire.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I liked the DMG and it costs the same shipped from the US as two beers in Norway. Cheap DMG, expensive beer.