Does D&D need equipment wear rules?
I used what I called "phantom treasure" to take care of this problem. I always assumed (as I told the players) that there was more treasure in any given amount of loot than they actually saw, and that amount was used to get trail rations, beast feed, soap, lantern oil, rope, all the normal basic adventuring supplies. The regular loot was to be used for everything beyond the normal, like extra weapons, magic items, really nice inns, etc.
I ran it like net pay versus gross pay in one's paycheck in real life. However much you get paid, a certain amount of that is automatically subtracted to pay for taxes, health care, pension plans, or what have you. Your net pay is the money you actually get to deal with, the rest might as well not be there for all that you lay your grubby paws on it. Hence the "phantom loot" is like the money taken out for taxes - it takes care of necessities so larger problems don't sneak up on you later.
I ran it like net pay versus gross pay in one's paycheck in real life. However much you get paid, a certain amount of that is automatically subtracted to pay for taxes, health care, pension plans, or what have you. Your net pay is the money you actually get to deal with, the rest might as well not be there for all that you lay your grubby paws on it. Hence the "phantom loot" is like the money taken out for taxes - it takes care of necessities so larger problems don't sneak up on you later.
Celebrim
Legend
You could put them in as an optional rule, but mostly the problem here is that tracking equipment decay involves more bookkeeping costs than you'll ever yield in fun. If you port D&D to a computer that could track it all for you, it might make sense, but otherwise it just puts too much of a mental burden on the DM to see to it that the decay is happening and the costs are paid.
I tend to simplify it into a 'living expense' rule that is relatively easy to track, and otherwise only worry about damage to equipment when it occurs during dramatic moments (or player's misusing their equipment). Even this can get complicated though, as to keep it 'simple' but also fair that means when, for example, an NPC buys the party lunch or offers the shelter of their roof they effectively get a daily expenditure deduction or a virtual transfer of silver into their pockets to use toward the daily living expense.
There are a lot of realistic things that might be fun if the bookkeeping costs were born by someone other than the participants (like a computer). They include realistic coinage, realistic language rules, maintenance and upkeep costs, flavorful quirky magic items, and so forth. I've played with all of them over the years, and ultimately you just can't sustain the interest involved enough to justify the various costs to play.
The tolerance for that sort of thing might vary between individual groups. I know some groups find tracking encumbrance and ammunition to be too much of a bookkeeping burden. Who has the light sources, who can see what, and 'what do you have in your hands' even gets to be a difficult problem to keep track of even when you are trying to pay attention to it.
There are lot of things I wish I could hand off to a computer and let me focus on creating game play, but unfortunately the cost of doing that is often higher than the returns as well (ask anyone that tried to DM in NWN).
I tend to simplify it into a 'living expense' rule that is relatively easy to track, and otherwise only worry about damage to equipment when it occurs during dramatic moments (or player's misusing their equipment). Even this can get complicated though, as to keep it 'simple' but also fair that means when, for example, an NPC buys the party lunch or offers the shelter of their roof they effectively get a daily expenditure deduction or a virtual transfer of silver into their pockets to use toward the daily living expense.
There are a lot of realistic things that might be fun if the bookkeeping costs were born by someone other than the participants (like a computer). They include realistic coinage, realistic language rules, maintenance and upkeep costs, flavorful quirky magic items, and so forth. I've played with all of them over the years, and ultimately you just can't sustain the interest involved enough to justify the various costs to play.
The tolerance for that sort of thing might vary between individual groups. I know some groups find tracking encumbrance and ammunition to be too much of a bookkeeping burden. Who has the light sources, who can see what, and 'what do you have in your hands' even gets to be a difficult problem to keep track of even when you are trying to pay attention to it.
There are lot of things I wish I could hand off to a computer and let me focus on creating game play, but unfortunately the cost of doing that is often higher than the returns as well (ask anyone that tried to DM in NWN).
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redrick
First Post
As others have said, assigning and tracking wear and tear, even with relatively simple designations, for a character's entire inventory, seems like a lot of paperwork and irrelevant for default settings where the only expensive adventuring items are heavy armor.
In a low-magic and low-money setting, I think it would be more fun to just introduce item random item failure, maybe as part of a fumble roll. Assume that all gear is second hand already. Something goes wrong, a sword gets cracked, a shield split, the bottom of a backpack rips open, and now the character has to figure out how to fashion an alternative until they can raise enough capital (or loot enough corpses) to replace it. You could maybe apply one "warning" level, where an item fails, but can be mended with a simple check on the spot, but the next time, it is gone for good. That way, instead of having a "condition" level next to every item in your inventory, you have maybe one or two items which have been replaced with "rusting sword" or "fraying backpack." Cuts down on the bookkeeping, but allows for fun in scarcity, until everybody gets bored and you let the players find some buried pirate gold.
In a low-magic and low-money setting, I think it would be more fun to just introduce item random item failure, maybe as part of a fumble roll. Assume that all gear is second hand already. Something goes wrong, a sword gets cracked, a shield split, the bottom of a backpack rips open, and now the character has to figure out how to fashion an alternative until they can raise enough capital (or loot enough corpses) to replace it. You could maybe apply one "warning" level, where an item fails, but can be mended with a simple check on the spot, but the next time, it is gone for good. That way, instead of having a "condition" level next to every item in your inventory, you have maybe one or two items which have been replaced with "rusting sword" or "fraying backpack." Cuts down on the bookkeeping, but allows for fun in scarcity, until everybody gets bored and you let the players find some buried pirate gold.
Illithidbix
Explorer
Does it need it in the core rules?
No.
The game runs fine without it and new players have enough to get used to as it is, so I think it's fine being below the abstraction layer.
Would it be worthy as a house/optional rule for groups who want to focus more on the details and practicalities of survival?
Yes.
I would be happy with DM adjudication rather than codified system myself, although if I was DMing I would normally *warn* if a particular course of action would damage equipment before the player did it, and/or ensure that an item always has a state of being damaged, but still usable and repairable rather than just stating that it's wrecked out of the blue.
(Remember as a DM consequences and the reasons for stuff happening might make perfect sense to you, but the player has to rely upon a second hand account of the fiction based upon what you describe, and often the situation can easily be misinterpreted by a player)
No.
The game runs fine without it and new players have enough to get used to as it is, so I think it's fine being below the abstraction layer.
Would it be worthy as a house/optional rule for groups who want to focus more on the details and practicalities of survival?
Yes.
I would be happy with DM adjudication rather than codified system myself, although if I was DMing I would normally *warn* if a particular course of action would damage equipment before the player did it, and/or ensure that an item always has a state of being damaged, but still usable and repairable rather than just stating that it's wrecked out of the blue.
(Remember as a DM consequences and the reasons for stuff happening might make perfect sense to you, but the player has to rely upon a second hand account of the fiction based upon what you describe, and often the situation can easily be misinterpreted by a player)
darkrose50
First Post
There are many costs that are not normally tracked. I like the idea of waving any cost under a certain threshold as compared to level.
Something like the Triangular Number Sequence
Level 1 = 1
Level 2 = 1+2 = 3
Level 3 = 1+2+3 =6
Level 4 = 1+2+3+4 = 10
. . . etcetera
Then either having this number set to silver, or gold would be acceptable. Even having this number be set to gold x10 would work for some. This would not work for some gritty post apocalyptic survival themed games, but for the vast majority of games it would work, and is likely more-or-less how many play the game anyhow. Go to town and resupply rations, arrows, bits for kits without tracking everything.
Basically any expense under the threshold would not be tracked. Not tracking room, board, stabling, feed, upkeep on gear, and resupplying mundane expendable would be a welcome rule to many. A 4th level adventure (1+2+3+4*10gp = 100gp) being able to pick up two potions of healing while in town, with pocket change, would be quite acceptable to me.
-----
This would represent pocket change, investment income, good will, and business reasons.
-----Pocket change-----
Tracking small sums of money can be tedious.
-----Investment income-----
Having huge sums of money would quite often result in investment income.
-----Good will and business reasons-----
Being able to meet, interact with, and help out heroes would be a desirable experience.
Having a group of highly powerful individuals frequent an establishment is good for security and business overall.
My father is a retired police officer and the local convenience store offered police officers free coffee and fountain drinks. This is quite the inexpensive way to barter for security.
Being able to say I shoed horses for heroes W, X, Y, and Z is bragging and marketing rights. Especially if you can get there signatures, or cantrip (?) aided portraits on the wall, a plank of wood, or paper.
Something like the Triangular Number Sequence
Level 1 = 1
Level 2 = 1+2 = 3
Level 3 = 1+2+3 =6
Level 4 = 1+2+3+4 = 10
. . . etcetera
Then either having this number set to silver, or gold would be acceptable. Even having this number be set to gold x10 would work for some. This would not work for some gritty post apocalyptic survival themed games, but for the vast majority of games it would work, and is likely more-or-less how many play the game anyhow. Go to town and resupply rations, arrows, bits for kits without tracking everything.
Basically any expense under the threshold would not be tracked. Not tracking room, board, stabling, feed, upkeep on gear, and resupplying mundane expendable would be a welcome rule to many. A 4th level adventure (1+2+3+4*10gp = 100gp) being able to pick up two potions of healing while in town, with pocket change, would be quite acceptable to me.
-----
This would represent pocket change, investment income, good will, and business reasons.
-----Pocket change-----
Tracking small sums of money can be tedious.
-----Investment income-----
Having huge sums of money would quite often result in investment income.
-----Good will and business reasons-----
Being able to meet, interact with, and help out heroes would be a desirable experience.
Having a group of highly powerful individuals frequent an establishment is good for security and business overall.
My father is a retired police officer and the local convenience store offered police officers free coffee and fountain drinks. This is quite the inexpensive way to barter for security.
Being able to say I shoed horses for heroes W, X, Y, and Z is bragging and marketing rights. Especially if you can get there signatures, or cantrip (?) aided portraits on the wall, a plank of wood, or paper.
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aramis erak
Legend
If one wants equipment wear, it can be done with only minor additions...
for example, armor: simply count the number of times one gets hit, and when it equals or exceeds the base AC, spend 10% of new cost for repairs or lower AC by 1.
For weapons, every time an attack roll is a 1 or 20, 1 wear point; when wear points equal or exceed max damage on the dice, reduce dice by one step.
The tracking isn't great, and I find wear unfun per se, but in some settings, it's well worth the extra minor math for the increased verisimilitude and/or pressure on the characters.
ANd remember: not all people want casual fun; some derive their fun from the adversities, and for them, it may be well worth it.
for example, armor: simply count the number of times one gets hit, and when it equals or exceeds the base AC, spend 10% of new cost for repairs or lower AC by 1.
For weapons, every time an attack roll is a 1 or 20, 1 wear point; when wear points equal or exceed max damage on the dice, reduce dice by one step.
The tracking isn't great, and I find wear unfun per se, but in some settings, it's well worth the extra minor math for the increased verisimilitude and/or pressure on the characters.
ANd remember: not all people want casual fun; some derive their fun from the adversities, and for them, it may be well worth it.
Erechel
Explorer
Problem is: the amount of times one was hit is cumbersome to track down. I've a system that uses the amount of fights instead, and apply it to every piece of equipment. Your heavy armor will be damaged in 16-18 fights (although its duration will be reduced), but a wooden shield would take less time. The bonus factor is that you only need to keep track of this once per session, and it takes a few minutes overall "We had 4 fights this session, so let's apply that damage to everything. There is something broken?" "My sword can last only two fights more" "My armor is peachy" "I have to change my shield. Next time, I'm not going to be a cheapskate with it and buy that dwarven shield".
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