Does damage from a touch attack ignore Damage Reduction

[Nifft]

From the SRD, Graft Weapon power* "For instance, the grafted weapon is treated as a natural weapon for the purpose of delivering a touch attack with a power in conjunction with the weapon attack. As with any power (or spell) melee touch attack made in conjunction with a natural weapon attack, the touch attack effect is not delivered unless the natural weapon strikes normally; on a failed attack, the touch power (or spell) is wasted."

Wow, good eye.

So it seems there are four possible readings of this passage, including the (IMHO insane) reading that all touch attacks automatically penetrate all DR.

Maybe I should write up the points for and against each reading, since it doesn't seem like anyone's changing his opinion. At least then newbs could see what all the fuss is about and pick a reading for their home games.

-- N

 

[irdeggman]

So a Ghost's touch attack would not be affected by DR since Corrupting Touch is a supernatural ability.

True under any view point - since it is a supernatural ability.

Wraithstrike is still arguable since it's a spell, does SR work with Wraithstrike?

I'd probably go with it works since it is a spell.

But what about a Wraith - Its Con drain is supernatural so no issue there, but the damage from the incorporeal touch attack? Incorporeal creatures by their nature are supernatural, also they can't normally effect the real world so to my mind any incorporeal touch attack is a supernatural ability.

Hmm I didn't know that "supernatural" was a type or subtype of creature. Spells likewise can make things incorporeal - does that make them supernatural too?

Incorporeal is a condition, like invisible, that carries with it certain benefits (and restrictions). It doesn't matter how the condition was met only that it was. The incorporeal subtype and the condition have basically the same effect.

As I read the entry the con drain is a supernatural ability and bypasses DR.

The hit point damage is a natural attack and is such subject to those rules.

See the quote on grafting weapons, I believe this position has popped up in other places - like a monk delivering a touch spell while using his unarmed strike. Basically a touch effect (using that to make sure we are talking about the same thing, basically spell and supernatural type of effects) can be delivered while performing a normal attack - but if the attack misses tehn the touch effect also fails to be delivered.

 

[Egres]

I think if I make a touch attack that does nothing but deal damage, and DR causes that damage not to have any effect, then DR has negated my touch attack, which it explicitly cannot do.

It negated the damage of your touch attack, not the touch attack itself.

The attack and its damage are two completely different things.

 

[Nail]

Maybe I should write up the points for and against each reading, since it doesn't seem like anyone's changing his opinion. At least then newbs could see what all the fuss is about and pick a reading for their home games.

I'd be quite happy to see such a thing. Go Nifft!

 

[RigaMortus2]

It negated the damage of your touch attack, not the touch attack itself.

The attack and its damage are two completely different things.

This is my understanding as well.

You can have an attack w/o damage, and you can have damage w/o an attack (see Traps for an example). This tells me that they are not always directly related.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Guy with cold iron longsword casting Wraithstrike = DR applies unless it is x/slashing or x/cold iron.

Ghost touches you = no DR applies, incorporeal touch attack, which is described in detail under "INCORPOREALITY" in the SRD

Ghost stabs you with +1 Ghost Touch longsword = DR applies, unless it is x/magic because the sword is magic. also, would not be an incorporeal touch attack.

Stab someone with +1 Flaming short sword = the piercing damage from the sword is affected by DR, the +1d6 fire damage is not.

Barbarians with DR 1/- are not immune to Wraithstrike, a Ghost's touch, Scorching Ray, or Inflict Moderate Wounds.

RAW is a joke.

That is all.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Something that has bothered me on the wording or terminology in this thread. People have used the term Negate. I don't think that this is the correct term. I think that if you change the term to absorb as in a theshold, then I think that we can have a better understanding of where many to us are trying to go.

DR 10/adamantine is the threshold that a creature needs to overcome in order to hurt said creature. This first 10 points of damage is absorbed by the DR before the creature starts taking wound damage unless this was with an adamantine weapon in which all the damage would cause wounds.

Now a touch attack usually is something other than a direct melee weapon damage. DR for the most part is works against melee or ranged physical attacks. With these attacks, adjustment such as armor and natural armor apply. A touch attack bypasses this as it is easier to touch something rather than penetrate it.

Wraithstrike give the weapon the ability to bypass Armor and Natural armor. This is still physical damage. Is doesn't change the damage type to some kind of energy. Since this is still melee weapon damage, after the hit is resolved, DR then absorbs according to the rules that of that DR ie DR 10/adamantine.

My 25 cents worth.

 

[Cabral]

A ghost's corrupting touch bypasses Damage Reduction because it is a Supernatural Ability, not because it is a Touch Attack.

Negate is the terminology used in the Damage Reduction entry. Negate (without a qualifier such as partial) is all or nothing, while absorb is not. Therefore while I agree with your conclusion as to how wraithstrike interacts with DR, wildstarsreach, I don't agree that you can simply substitute absorb for negate. (Which, FWIW, would give you the sentence, "damage reduction does not absorb touch attacks")