Does sniping while hidden deal sneak attack damage?

[atomn]

During combat (after the surprise round) if a character successfully hides then attacks a foe, do they get any benefits? Specifically, is the target flat-footed, denied its Dex bonus or in any other way incur sneak attack damage? Looking online and in the books, I can't find anything that indicates it is anything other than a normal attack with normal damage. Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[AuraSeer]

If your target cannot see you when you attack, you count as invisible.

Modifiers for invisibility are on the "favorable and unfavorable conditions" table: the attacker gets a +2 to hit, and the defender loses his Dex bonus to AC. The latter means that a hidden rogue does do sneak attack damage.

After the first attack, the rogue has probably given his position away. To hide again immediately after the shot, you must make another Hide check with a -20 penalty. (This bit is explained in the skill description.)

 

[atomn]

If your target cannot see you when you attack, you count as invisible.

Cool, thanks! Do you have a specific reference for this or is it an assumption. Logical as it is (invisible="not perceptible by the eye", "cannot see you"="not perceptible by the eye"), sometimes the RAW doesn't always mesh with logic.

 

[Markn]

If memory serves, you need to be within 30' to sneak attack with a ranged weapon...

 

[atomn]

If memory serves, you need to be within 30' to sneak attack with a ranged weapon...

Yes, true. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Cool, thanks! Do you have a specific reference for this or is it an assumption. Logical as it is (invisible="not perceptible by the eye", "cannot see you"="not perceptible by the eye"), sometimes the RAW doesn't always mesh with logic.

Complete andventurer expounds on the mechanics of sniping.
It does not however agree with AuraSeer. Invisible is a game condition that not only denies your target dex (which Cadv supports), but also gives +2 to attack (which Cadv does not support). So unseen and invisible are not equal by RAW.

It's not a bad house rule though.

Sorry, can't find the page or similar threads at the moment.

 

[atomn]

Complete andventurer expounds on the mechanics of sniping.

Sorry, can't find the page or similar threads at the moment.

Excellent! I was checking the PHB, didn't even look in C.Adv. I'll check it tonight. Thanks!!

 

[Henry]

So unseen and invisible are not equal by RAW.

It's one of those places where the "Common Sense" rulebook really needs to take over.

I haven't seen it in an adventure, but in one scenario I planned out the PCs were sniped upon by a sniper with a monstrous Hide skill (decent even after the -20 penalty!) and poisoned arrows. It drove them nuts until one PC finally succeeded on his Spot check...

 

[scrubkai]

I haven't seen it in an adventure, but in one scenario I planned out the PCs were sniped upon by a sniper with a monstrous Hide skill (decent even after the -20 penalty!) and poisoned arrows. It drove them nuts until one PC finally succeeded on his Spot check...

Actually the adventure Eyes of the Lich Queen has almost that exact situation in one of the early encounters. The only difference is, the snipers have a very "spotable" hide check when a -20 is applied to it.

So it won't drive the players quite as nuts, but it will still be a pain. Especially when you have a party like mine with generally bad Fort Saves.

 

[mikebr99]

Actually the adventure Eyes of the Lich Queen has almost that exact situation in one of the early encounters. The only difference is, the snipers have a very "spotable" hide check when a -20 is applied to it.

So it won't drive the players quite as nuts, but it will still be a pain. Especially when you have a party like mine with generally bad Fort Saves.

Don't forget that the spotters have a -1 per 10ft. of distance between them and the sniper... and I would allow the sniper to take 10 on his hide check is he's carefully planned out this ambush... I may even allow some circumstance bonuses depending on the enviromnent... YMMV

Mike