D&D 5E Does WotC suck at selling games?

[BryonD]

Haha, no doubt. But again, we don't know exactly how many of those animals are jellyfish and how many are monkeys. Their "true nature" is revealed through whether or not they show interest in riding a bicycle. If you don't provide a bike that is easy to learn on, then we'll simply never know.

Agreed. But I'll stand by my prediction.
If there WAS an increased desire you would at least see more PLAYERS for the existing DMs.

That lack fo smoke *suggests* there may not be any fire.

 

[Wrathamon]

And obviously they're doing very well considering the Amazon numbers, so it's a bit much to say they suck at their jobs.

Did you read what he wrote? The title is click bait ...

The whole foundation of what he wrote is based on a conversation he had and he is saying that pretty much the tabletop RPG industry as a whole is not meeting the goals that was laid out in that conversation. He isnt saying wotc isnt good at selling a product or that the industry isnt growing.

He used the latest launch as an example how they havent really done anything to try and reach beyond the core market in a meaningful way to "get more fish into the net" based on the what Mearls said 2 years ago about the state of the industry.


(4e "essentials" did bring in a lot of new players .. I saw a ton of new young players that never played before ... it just also lost a lot of older players) Which shows the 2 to 5% growth Mearls was talking about, instead of the 50% or 80% or more that you see in other "nerd" industries.

Its like comics ... Super heroes are HUGE! but comic sales still suck.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Good article, makes a number of good points. But I think it severely underestimates the quality of the Starter Set as a DM introductory product. My wife, who had little prior experience as a player, was able to pick the box up with zero prep work and begin running the game for her younger siblings. They had a blast!

But your wife did have prior experience as a player. That makes a big difference. Also, she might have asked you a few questions about DM'ing.

D&D really needs a good way to bring new people into tabletop gaming. AngryDM might not be right about everything in his rant, but he's definitely correct on this one.

 

[BryonD]

1. Okay, orcs.
2. The former is actually a prerequisite for the latter. So an increase the former should be correlated by an increase in the latter.

1. I don't think there was a lack of knowledge of orcs in the 1980s. Further, I'd add that if someone (in any time) is so out of tune with the tropes, then the idea that they would be inclined to become a majorly involved player is unlikely.

2. Simply not true. An internet connection is a prerequisite for ordering an item from Amazon. A faster internet connection will not get my item to me more quickly. Awareness has no causal relationship on interest. And the case can be made that interest tends to enhances awareness. So increasing awareness becomes exactly the opposite of preaching to the choir. You are simply showing the bike to more jellyfish. Moving jellyfish from the unaware category to the indifferent category doesn't change anything. More aware jellyfish are just a faster internet. (bet you didn't wake up this morning expecting to read that sentence )

 

[Uchawi]

There is an issue of accessibility, mixed with the ease of playing an RPG versus all the alternatives, and doing something different or original that creates a new trend or momentum. For D&D it must get ahead of all the hubris of previous editions, otherwise the old guard clashes with the new. And with social media being front and center, it easier than ever for the warring factions to get into conflicts.

You can make 5E more accessible and train more DMs, but how much work is that versus alternatives, and what do you do with established players that want something new versus those that do not want to change? You no longer have one gaming company calling all the shots.

 

[BryonD]

(4e "essentials" did bring in a lot of new players .. I saw a ton of new young players that never played before ... it just also lost a lot of older players) Which shows the 2 to 5% growth Mearls was talking about, instead of the 50% or 80% or more that you see in other "nerd" industries.

I think you are off to say that essentials brought them in. We ALWAYS see new young players that never played before. There will be more of them next year and the next.
Now, they can be spread out or concentrated, and the game options in question DO impact that.

But the new players are just the 2% to 5% growth, as stated, a steady consistent growth, that ties to population in general.

The fact that TTRPG growth ties to population growth and fails to tie to "nerd industry" growth is fundamental to my point.

 

[Wrathamon]

based on the organized play I have been running over the last 10 years from my perspective from end of 3e to essentials I saw triple the amount of new players then I did the many years before that. Again this is my perspective from my observations. I was actually pretty shocked at the amount of highschool, collage and even younger coming in after essentials launched. I didnt see that many since the launch of 3rd. 4e didnt change much it was some new some old. I had over 20 people with essentials (all new players) until they started the D&D next and they all stopped playing. Before that maybe 6 to 8 players. Most had played at some point in their life. So far ... 5e hasnt changed the 6 to 8, Let's hope it does.

So for whatever reason in my area they did something right when essentials launched to spike interest in public play, till it faded away. Not sure what they did marketing wise but I felt it worked.

 

[Parmandur]

Good points ,TarionzCousin; though her experience was limited to 3-4 games of 4E played in 2010 while we were dating. Point is, she did not read the adventure before playing, and it was FUN. My main point is that the adventure is actually more conducive to what AngryDM is talking about than might be apparent at first glance.

 

[Minigiant]

Here's the thing.

Tutorials

Angry DM is pretty much asking for a D&D game book that runs as a tutorial.
A D&D book called "So You are a Dwarf Fighter."
It brings you into the dwarf experience. Teaches you about the fighter class. Dwarf options and fighter options.
Maybe a few levels of classes you mutiliclass into of the full description of axes, hammers, ashields and heavy armors.
Maybe even one of those choose your adventure story things in the back. Maybe 3.
No spells, no swords, no sneak attacks.

And D&D veterans would not buy it at all.

 

[BryonD]

based on the organized play I have been running over the last 10 years from my perspective from end of 3e to essentials I saw triple the amount of new players then I did the many years before that. Again this is my perspective from my observations. I was actually pretty shocked at the amount of highschool, collage and even younger coming in after essentials launched. I didnt see that many since the launch of 3rd. 4e didnt change much it was some new some old. I had over 20 people with essentials (all new players) until they started the D&D next and they all stopped playing. Before that maybe 6 to 8 players. Most had played at some point in their life. So far ... 5e hasnt changed the 6 to 8, Let's hope it does.

So for whatever reason in my area they did something right when essentials launched to spike interest in public play, till it faded away. Not sure what they did marketing wise but I felt it worked.

I don't doubt that they could have concentrated more of the TTRPG interest specifically into D&D at a point in time and space.