Doors: Too hard to break, too easy to chop

[Pbartender]

The rules look fine to me as is. Here's the list of various door statistics from the SRD, along with guidelines for Door Bashing DCs...

~~~

Simple wooden: 1 in thick, Hardness 5, 10 hp, Stuck DC 13, Locked DC 15
Good wooden: 1 1/2 in. thick, Hardness 5, 15 hp, Stuck DC 16, Locked DC 18
Strong wooden: 2 in. thick, Hardness 5, 20 hp, Stuck DC 23, Locked DC 25
Stone: 4 in. thick, Hardness 8, 60 hp, Stuck DC 28 , Locked DC 28
Iron: 2 in. thick, Hardness 10, 60 hp, Stuck DC 28, Locked DC 28
Portcullis, wooden: 3 in thick, Hardness 5, 30 hp, Stuck DC 25*, Locked DC 25*
Portcullis, iron: 2 in. thick, Hardness 10, 60 hp, Stuck DC 25*, Locked DC 25*
Lock: Hardness 15, 30 hp
Hinge: Hardness 15, 30 hp

*DC to lift. Use appropriate door figure for breaking.

• DC 10 or lower: a door just about anyone can break open.
• DC 11–15: a door that a strong person could break with one try and an average person might be able to break with one try.
• DC 16–20: a door that almost anyone could break, given time.
• DC 21–25: a door that only a strong or very strong person has a hope of breaking, probably not on the first try.
• DC 26+: a door that only an exceptionally strong person has a hope of breaking.

~~~

Remember, a simple wooden door would be your average door. Good wooden doors would be used in rich homes and businesses, and castle interiors. Strong wooden doors would be used for castle/keep/fortress exteriors and gates. Stone doors would be most often encountered in crypts and tombs. Iron doors might be found in dungeons or castle walls.

Unless they are meant to protect something special, most doors should be "Simple wooden", or "Good wooden".

 

[Berk]

pbartender is correct
and also, there is this thing about this wonderful game and it is called faqntasy, people need to stop comparing it to real life because it isn't!!!!!

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm ok with most of the break and hardness/hp rules for objects. I just wish all attacks either modifed a str check for break checks, or gave a flat+for break checks(club+2 to str check,great club+3, rapier-3etc).

Things like spells and breath weapons should have some kind of + so they can make break checks and not have to damage thier way through a door or wall.

When a dragon flies by the tower I want his breath weapon to be able to just make a str check on the tower to see if the walls are shattered, with some modifier based on the type of breath weapon, amybe something like 1d20+1/4 the damage dealt, and 1d20+1/8 damage dealt for more gass like less destrucitve breath weapons.

 

[mkletch]

26 strength? Even in the unlikely event the character starts with an 18, you're still probably talking about at least a 12th level character or so before they can get to 26. So for a very significant portion of their adventuring life, even the strongest characters will be unable to break wooden doors.

Well, as someone else pointed out, this is a game of heroic characters. I, however, do not consider a 5th level character as heroic. 12th level, OK, that is starting to get heroic. Basically, when the combat system sarts to break down, and you have characters doing things like you read about in the Illiad, that is heroic.

Now, maybe the designers meant for wooden doors to be significant obstacles - but if so, why make them so easy to chop down? It just doesn't make sense.

Timing. Awareness. You chop down that door, every beastie within a quarter mile knows you're doing it. Are you characters prepared to fight several score of bad guys? A couple hundred? Be careful chopping down doors.

The rules assume that a strong door is a door designed as 'strong' that is still in good repair. If it is a half-rotted door in some forgotten dungeon, chances are the DC will be much lower. Or at least, should be. A lot of DMs don't consider mundane things like doors down to this level of detail.

-Fletch!

 

[Pbartender]

Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Breaking Objects

It's all in the SRD. It's pretty straightforward. And if you read carefully, there are several over-looked guidelines that address the very questions people are asking here...

 

[Corlon]

Keep in mind that someone can assist for a +2 on the check as well. Even with just the party wimp helping, the big bad barbarian only needs a 16 STR to break down a locked wooden door.

We have Ivellious, Corlon, Gandin, and Garret
Ivellious: 1...
everyone: 2...
everyone: 3...
everyone: aaaaaaaa *THUNK*
door: ow *opens*

 

[howandwhy99]

OOT

This isn't the same NC, former WI, former NJ, former LA, Grog that used to belong to B-I-G, Big, is it?

 

[Zaruthustran]

Someone commented that a kick is an unarmed attack against the door. That's a good idea. Combine it with the Str check, and you have your heroic "kick in the door" imagery.

PC: I kick in the door!
DM: Okay. Make a Str check to see if you kick it in with one shot.
PC: I rolled a 12.
DM: Okay, the door does *not* go crashing in. Now roll the damage for the kick. The door has a hardness of 5.
PC: (rolls a 4, adds 3 for Str) Okay, with my Str bonus I did 2 points of damage.
DM: The door's hinges groan, but it holds.

Maybe you could reduce the DC of the "Force open" check by 1 point for each point of damage suffered by the door. That way, the door would wear down under repeated kicks. Or you could lay a few axe chops into the wood that surrounds the lock (damage the door), then kick at that spot, smashing the surrounding wood and leaving nothing to hold the lock in place (succeed at the force open check).

But that's house rules stuff. Me, I think the check DCs as written are a good guideline.

-z

 

[Grog]

Re: OOT

This isn't the same NC, former WI, former NJ, former LA, Grog that used to belong to B-I-G, Big, is it?

Nope, not me. Sorry.

 

[Grog]

I think this is why is was done. If your trying to bash down a door or chop it, the enemy on the other side will know you are their. If you bash it down (one round) then you could get a surprise round. But if you are hacking it, the enemy on the other side knows someone is comming (and could cast a few buff spells).

But it's very possible for the PCs to hack a door down in one round. Once a fighter gets two attacks, it'd probably only take him one round to chop the door down.

I guess I'm just confused as to why, on the one hand, doors are so hard to break down, which suggests they're supposed to be significant obstacles, but on the other hand, they're easy to chop down, which suggests they aren't supposed to be significant obstacles. It just seems like a contradiction. Unless the designers only meant them to be obstacles if the PCs are weaponless...