Ankh Pilgrim said:
I wondered that myself. Was this an oversight, or are epic vestiges so mighty that no binder could possibly resist their influence, making the binding check unnecessary? If it was an intentional omission, I'd like to see that explicitly stated. It makes a difference- if the vestige that compels the binder to destroy undead (I believe this was the interesting Egyptian themed one) were bound by an undead being who had the 'Ignore special requirements' feat, he'd be compelled to destroy himself regardless. (Or am I being careless- does 'ignore special requirements' not apply to epic vestiges?)
I do like the feats, and the vestiges themselves, all very timely, since the doors seem to have just closed on the last of WotC's official 3.5 content. How different is their epic material from that in Secrets of Pact Magic?
Well, they have a number of Spirits available at epic level, which require a feat (21st level, and 21 Con[the binding of epic spirit takes a toll on the body]) to bind. The Spirits have very high DCs, but they can be reduced by meeting certain criteria. I would say there are 7 or 8 abilities of which you choose 4 when you bind to the spirit. There is a feat that allows you to choose a 5th ability at the time of binding. from what I see, you can only bind one epic spirit at a time though.
Ankh Pilgrim said:
I am very curious, JustaPlayer, about your experience with Secrets of Pact Magic. How does it actually play? I've only looked at the sample material thus far. I like the adjusted premise better than the ToM Binder- it's more flexible and flavorful if you can make pacts with other kinds of beings than vestiges beyond reality- and I really really liked the idea of the capstone power, because it makes the binding check have significance beyond how you RP your character. I like the idea of multiple classes using binding. But the sample base class they provided struck me as... odd, nothing I'd ever use.
The table of contents suggested there was a lot more interesting material, but I'm very curious how it actually plays out at the table.
I have only played two sessions with the rules but it works much better. I was frustrated with the ToM class. I had a prestige class which pretty much locked me into one vestige and then was able to bind a second vestige. The problem was I had to bind a 2nd level vestige all the time because of the prestige class, even though I was entitled to 5th level vestiges. Anyway, when I bond the second vestige, it always seem useless to the situation. Secrets is more flexible. If I can bind two 5th level spirits, I would be able to bind the 2nd level and additional vestiges adding up to 8 more spirit levels (i.e. I can have a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th level spirit bound, or even 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 4th). There is an option rule that can give consequences for binding too many spirits that will make you not want to abuse that. Also of note is that I find abilities to be more useful. Over all, I feel it is more playable.
Here's a list of the classes (please note these classes can bind spirits at all levels, I am just listing the maximum spirit they can bind at 20th level):
Empyrean Monk: Has a monk's flurry of blows ability as well as some other monk stuff. Able to bind a 9th level spirit at 20th level.
Foe Hunter: This is a roguish type binder with sneak attack and favored enemies. Able to bind a 6th spirit at 20th level.
Occult Priest: These guys are looking to become godlike. Can bind epic "fragments" at 15th level. Able to bind a 9th level spirit at 20th level.
Pact Warrior: Fighter-like character, able to enter battle trances and has a spirit strike ability. Able to bind a 6th level spirit at 20th level.
Soul Weaver: This is a wizard-like binder. He is able to cast arcane spells, though fewer than a wizard. He can bind a 9th level spirit at 20th level.
Spirit Binder: This guy is closest to the binder class presented in ToM. He can bind 9th level "spirits" at 20th level. Where other classes only bind one spirit, this guy can do more. Remember though that the other can bind multiple spirit if the total level <= the max level.
Unbound Witch: This class gains special abilities permanently and gets deformed in the process. Able to bind a 9th level spirit at 20th level.
Warbinder: Another fighter-like binder. Able to bind a 6th level spirit at 20th level.
If you all have any questions, I'll answer them here or at the book's forum (
