Dragon Age

[mhensley]

I can't play the crpg (computer too old), but I am very interested in the GR rpg. I've liked ever thing I've read about it so far.

 

[Lancelot]

The CRPG is a good game, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'm on my 3rd playthrough (PC version), and considering it's about 60 hours to complete...

Having said that, the world is pretty ordinary. Almost disappointingly so. Some of the things that got to me...

• It shamelessly rips from another CRPG called The Witcher. If you've played The Witcher and experienced it's view of urbanized elves forced into the slums, scattered elven bands clinging to the old ways, and a disease ravaging the demi-humans who have been forced into Vizima's Old City... oops, sorry... the Alienage of Denerim... then you're going to be disheartened by Dragon Age's almost exact copy of it.
• It shamelessly rips from Lord of the Rings (the movie). I'm not even going to talk about the cutscene near the start where the darkspawn (orcs) attack Ostagar (Helm's Deep). Instead, I'll talk about the cutscene in the Deep Roads, where your party is appraoching the Dead Trenches (Dead City), and a giant dragon (nazgul on winged beast) flies up unexepectedly with a horrid screech, then perches atop a high vantage point an an army of darkspawn (orcs) marches forth from the city to war, as the party (hobbits) hide and observe...
• I've heard the Chantry/Templar thing is ripped from some other source, although I'm not familiar with it personally.

Again, really enjoy it as a *game* (great mechanics, memorable PCs, tons of fun adventuring). But the setting is derivative and uninspiring. I hope a future sequel pushes the creative boundaries a bit more.

 

[Teemu]

I've understood that the PnP game's mechanics follow the computer game's mechanics pretty closely. If this is true, mages will overshadow warriors and rogues.

 

[Punnuendo]

I've understood that the PnP game's mechanics follow the computer game's mechanics pretty closely. If this is true, mages will overshadow warriors and rogues.

Not once they run into a backstab rogue. Those guys are brutal.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

The CRPG is a good game, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'm on my 3rd playthrough (PC version), and considering it's about 60 hours to complete...

Having said that, the world is pretty ordinary. Almost disappointingly so. Some of the things that got to me...

• It shamelessly rips from another CRPG called The Witcher. If you've played The Witcher and experienced it's view of urbanized elves forced into the slums, scattered elven bands clinging to the old ways, and a disease ravaging the demi-humans who have been forced into Vizima's Old City... oops, sorry... the Alienage of Denerim... then you're going to be disheartened by Dragon Age's almost exact copy of it.
• It shamelessly rips from Lord of the Rings (the movie). I'm not even going to talk about the cutscene near the start where the darkspawn (orcs) attack Ostagar (Helm's Deep). Instead, I'll talk about the cutscene in the Deep Roads, where your party is appraoching the Dead Trenches (Dead City), and a giant dragon (nazgul on winged beast) flies up unexepectedly with a horrid screech, then perches atop a high vantage point an an army of darkspawn (orcs) marches forth from the city to war, as the party (hobbits) hide and observe...
• I've heard the Chantry/Templar thing is ripped from some other source, although I'm not familiar with it personally.

Again, really enjoy it as a *game* (great mechanics, memorable PCs, tons of fun adventuring). But the setting is derivative and uninspiring. I hope a future sequel pushes the creative boundaries a bit more.

You are, of course, aware that none of those things originated where you're listing, either. Given 20 minutes of time with my bookshelf, I bet I can find a dozen or so independent urbanized elf concepts from different authors. Most of the visuals in your second section track back to any well-told myth, though modern representations of them pretty much all hearken back to Hitchcock. And don't get me started on the Templar thing.

Berating people for recycling ideas is an empty exercise. There are no new ideas. We ran out of new ideas back in Mesopotamia. How well you hook old ideas together and how well you present them is where the skill actually lies. If you're really lucky, you'll stumble on an idea that's been out of fashion for 50 years or so, and people will think you're a genius, but generally you make due with smart recombination and skilled presentation.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

You are, of course, aware that none of those things originated where you're listing, either. Given 20 minutes of time with my bookshelf, I bet I can find a dozen or so independent urbanized elf concepts from different authors. Most of the visuals in your second section track back to any well-told myth, though modern representations of them pretty much all hearken back to Hitchcock. And don't get me started on the Templar thing.

Berating people for recycling ideas is an empty exercise. There are no new ideas. We ran out of new ideas back in Mesopotamia. How well you hook old ideas together and how well you present them is where the skill actually lies. If you're really lucky, you'll stumble on an idea that's been out of fashion for 50 years or so, and people will think you're a genius, but generally you make due with smart recombination and skilled presentation.

There's a difference between "doing kinda similar, but with a few unfamiliar twists" and "blatently ripping off."

I'm sorry, but the excuse of "Well nobody has any creativity, ever!" just doesn't fly. Because it's an excuse, not a reason.

 

[Thistonius]

There's a difference between "doing kinda similar, but with a few unfamiliar twists" and "blatently ripping off."

I'm sorry, but the excuse of "Well nobody has any creativity, ever!" just doesn't fly. Because it's an excuse, not a reason.

I'm sure the witcher ripped off other people work as well, not sure but I do remember reading a book from the 1980's which also included a warrior who used potions to enchance himself, or at least something similar anyway.

There isn't much creativity on original ideas anymore, due to them being used so many, but there is creativity on variations of those ideas. Sure Dragon age's plot isn't very original, but it is original as a variant on those ideas. Thats how you need to look at things nowadays.

Besides, the plot of the game must be good enough to keep you hooked since you are enjoying playing it, and thats what it's all about really. If you are enjoying, why care about where they got their ideas from.

I'm on my 2nd play through as a dwarf noble and i'm noticing how different people talk to me because I'm a dwarf, it's brilliant.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I'm sure the witcher ripped off other people work as well, not sure but I do remember reading a book from the 1980's which also included a warrior who used potions to enchance himself, or at least something similar anyway.

There isn't much creativity on original ideas anymore, due to them being used so many, but there is creativity on variations of those ideas. Sure Dragon age's plot isn't very original, but it is original as a variant on those ideas. Thats how you need to look at things nowadays.

Besides, the plot of the game must be good enough to keep you hooked since you are enjoying playing it, and thats what it's all about really. If you are enjoying, why care about where they got their ideas from.

I'm on my 2nd play through as a dwarf noble and i'm noticing how different people talk to me because I'm a dwarf, it's brilliant.

Plot and setting are two different things, though.

DA:O has some magnificent quest creation. That doesn't make the setting any less rubbish.

Arcanum, for example, was a gaslight setting with various races superimposed with stereotypes. That in of itself isn't original, but the presentation and actual details of it were, and to top it off, it's a setting that the genre hadn't seen before, at all.

What about Planescape? Both the setting and the vidya game? I'd say it was pretty damn original indeed.

Fallout/Wasteland? Mad Max had been done before. Post apoc had been done before. But the touch of 50's pulp and the retro feel to it gave it a life of it's own.

DA:O just doesn't stand out, setting wise. It's not a bad game, and I thought it would be. But it IS a bad setting.

 

[mhensley]

I've understood that the PnP game's mechanics follow the computer game's mechanics pretty closely.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong about this.

So fairly early in the process I decided that the game would best be served by designing a new system. I also decided I wanted to do it myself, as I was up for a game design challenge and had a lot of ideas percolating in my head about how to approach a new class and level game. I would draw inspiration from the computer game, but ultimately the tabletop RPG would be its own animal. What works for a computer game and what works for a tabletop game are not necessarily the same and first and foremost I wanted to be sure we made a great tabletop RPG.

Design Diary 1: The Dragon Age Begins

 

[havard]

Good quote mhensley! I'm not sure how keen I am on yet another class/level based system, but if Chris Pramas is behind it, chances are its going to be brilliant

Havard