Dragon Breath Recharge Question

[demiurgeastaroth]

That question has already been answered (i.e. MMI, see my reply to Hypersmurf above).

To me, that seemed ambiguous.
Here's what I think you meant. If I misunderstand, please correct me.
If a dragon breathes at initiative 20 in round 1, and rolls a 1 on the recharge roll, it does get to breathe at initiative 20 in round 2.

Darren

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think we're on the same wavelength now.

Yup.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Here's what I think you meant. If I misunderstand, please correct me.
If a dragon breathes at initiative 20 in round 1, and rolls a 1 on the recharge roll, it does get to breathe at initiative 20 in round 2.

You partially understand. According to the SRD, MMI, MoF, yes. But except for my very first post in this thread (and even then, it was tenuous), before I noticed the disparity between the sources, I never said it didn't. That never had anything to do with my argument. The text in MMII was my focus. Nothing else.

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

You partially understand. According to the SRD, MMI, MoF, yes. But except for my very first post in this thread (and even then, it was tenuous), before I noticed the disparity between the sources, I never said it didn't. That never had anything to do with my argument. The text in MMII was my focus. Nothing else.

Forgive me for getting the bit stuck between my teeth, but I wasn't asking how you interpret the texts. I am simply asking which method you prefer to use in play. So which is it?

Darren

 

[Murrdox]

Personally, I'm not going to change the way I've been doing it, which is that a dragon can only breath every other round at maximum. The "1" on the D4 means that he has to have at least 1 round in between breathe weapon attacks.

Unless the 3.5 Monster manual says otherwise, I'm going to keep doing it this way. Personally, I think breath weapons are too powerful to be able to be used every turn just in case the DM rolls lucky.

 

[kreynolds]

To me, what the text in MMII means, is that if the dragon rolls a 1 on its recharge roll, it acts the very next round, because it has indeed waited one round.

I know you do, but I completely disagree.

Hypersmurf's example of haste gives one example of why the "wait till next round" limit is needed.

I don't think it gives either interpretation more credit than the other. A dragon simply can't breathe twice in one round, no matter which interpretation you use.

What actually happens:

Round 1: Initiative 20, the Dragon acts.
This action is instantanous, taking no time. Before this initaitive moment, the dragon is frozen in time. After this initiative moment, the dragon is again frozen. Somewhere between, the dragon acted - moving, breathing, casting spells, whatever, - it all happened in an instant.
Round 2: Initiative 20, the dragon again acts. Since it has been frozen, waiting, for one entire round, it may now breath again.

Except it wasn't the dragon's turn, and as it has already been pointed out, the time outside of your turn in the initiative count is useless to you. You can't do anything with it. If you could, the durations of your spells would count down far faster than normal, but they don't. Why? Because it isn't your turn.

While not acting, the dragon isn't lierally frozen (it might make opportunity attacks, etc), but for the purposes of the initiative system, it is.

Either the dragon is frozen or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. You're saying that the dragon is frozen in time, but when it comes to his breath weapon, he isn't. In other words, outside of his turn, he can't attack, so that time is useless to him. Also outside of his turn, the time counts for his wait period, even though time outside of his turn is useless to him. That doesn't make any sense to me.

That's why I said, oh so long ago , that I see no conflict between the MMII text and other sources.

That's also why I said that I do, and still do.

 

[kreynolds]

Forgive me for getting the bit stuck between my teeth, but I wasn't asking how you interpret the texts. I am simply asking which method you prefer to use in play. So which is it?

Apparently there was a miscommunication somewhere. If I'm going to use the CRs as presented in the sourcebooks for the various dragons, I'll use MMII.

 

[Bauglir]

All the weirdness aside the question is this:

Is 'waiting' an action that one must perform on one's initiative, or is it a passive effect that continues between initiatives?

You decide, for your game.

Personally I consider it to be for all intents a free action, which must occur on the creature's initiative.

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Either the dragon is frozen or it isn't. You can't have it both ways. You're saying that the dragon is frozen in time, but when it comes to his breath weapon, he isn't.

Of course I can. In fact, it's not a question of having it both ways. I'm saying that, for the purpose of initiative and action sequence, the dragon might as well be frozen in time. Of course it isn't literally frozen, but within the abstract combat system of D&D, it appears to be.
But, during its actuion, it acts instantaneously, then 6 seconds pass, then it acts again.

Darren

 

[kreynolds]

I'm saying that, for the purpose of initiative and action sequence, the dragon might as well be frozen in time.

Then he can't wait. It isn't his turn. Time outside of his turn doesn't do anything for him, as it isn't his time.

Of course it isn't literally frozen, but within the abstract combat system of D&D, it appears to be.

So he isn't frozen? So the dragon can use the time outside of his turn to accomplish actions? If so, then he can even use his breath weapon when it isn't his turn. But he can't. Why? It isn't his turn.

This is what I mean by you wanting to have it both ways.

But, during its actuion, it acts instantaneously, then 6 seconds pass, then it acts again.

Using a breath weapon is a standard action that allows a move. That takes approximately six seconds to do one, either, or both. By claiming that breathing and/or moving is an instantaneous action leaving six seconds remaining in the round is arbitrary, and that isn't how the system works.