Dragonlance Dragonlance Lives

[DMZ2112]

If there is any place that the delayed access to subclasses really works, its here.

Agreed, although progressing a single character through Fighter, Knight of the Crown, Knight of the Sword, and Knight of the Rose would require some adaptation of the rules as I currently understand them.

I suppose the contemporary rules solution is to compress the orders into "Solamnic Knight," but that really fails to acknowledge that progression between orders in the Knights was far from automatic. Each order would need its own subclass with unique abilities through level 20.

This is the sort of thing that made Dragonlance great. Ansalon was small, but that just meant we got much better detail about everything that went on there.

This is kind of an aside, but there is also something we've lost by moving away from the dual-classing system and hard mechanical requirements for class membership. I'd be the first to agree that being limited in what you can play by your starting attributes is nonsense, but coupled with the new movement toward ability scores that improve over time, I feel like the development of characters toward exclusive goals is something that has been taken away from players.

 

[the Jester]

This is kind of an aside, but there is also something we've lost by moving away from the dual-classing system and hard mechanical requirements for class membership. I'd be the first to agree that being limited in what you can play by your starting attributes is nonsense, but coupled with the new movement toward ability scores that improve over time, I feel like the development of characters toward exclusive goals is something that has been taken away from players.

I've become a huge fan of in-game roleplaying requirements for certain things. In DL, this could manifest as feats whose prerequisites are "Inducted into the Knights of Crown"- something you have to earn in-game rather than just selecting the right character options.

 

[ki11erDM]

I have ZERO desire to play or DM any modules revolving around the War of the Lance. The novels did it best.

I have HUGE desire to play or DM a Dragonlance campaign in the Pre-War time. No clerics, low wizards, 99.9% no dragons.

I have a good desire to play or DM a Dragonlance campaign that "reboots" the worlds at some point in the future, but I don't need another great war or cataclysm to do that... just a clean start.

Really, if you are going to reboot it please for the love of Paladine don't do another crazy cataclysm... a world can only take so many.

 

[Elf Witch]

I've become a huge fan of in-game roleplaying requirements for certain things. In DL, this could manifest as feats whose prerequisites are "Inducted into the Knights of Crown"- something you have to earn in-game rather than just selecting the right character options.

That is something easily handled at the table. I DM 3.5 and there are no rules that limit being able to multiclass by the RAW. Yet there are at my table. I can guarantee that coming to me and saying I just took a level in barbarian when you are city born and bred and never spent any time with a tribe is not going to fly in my game the same with prestige classes.

But not everyone wants to play like this.

I made my own prestige classes for going up in levels as knights of the different orders. I would like to see something like that built into a new Dragonlance setting.

 

[DMZ2112]

I've become a huge fan of in-game roleplaying requirements for certain things. In DL, this could manifest as feats whose prerequisites are "Inducted into the Knights of Crown"- something you have to earn in-game rather than just selecting the right character options.

Is that not standard at most tables? I would always have required that, even when there were established mechanical requirements to becoming a Knight of the Crown.

I don't mean to suggest that roleplaying requirements be replaced by mechanical ones, only that achieving certain mechanical requirements may be associated with a certain satisfaction not provided by roleplay.

I mean, we all use the D&D ruleset for a reason. Obviously it is not enough for us to simply sit around a table and say, "My character is an elven fighter;" being an elf and being a fighter must mean something inherent to the ruleset. It stands to reason that we might find it enjoyable if the rules themselves were somewhat restrictive and required more sacrifices of us.

I have a good desire to play or DM a Dragonlance campaign that "reboots" the worlds at some point in the future, but I don't need another great war or cataclysm to do that... just a clean start.

I would love for "A Clean Start" to be the mantra of D&D5 setting support across the board. I think at some point TSR and later Wizards became obsessed with the idea of an evolving, persistent world, and it seems like in most cases they did themselves an injustice. You see the same phenomenon in most long-running book and television series -- eventually the desperation for new material within an established timeline results in retroactive continuity.

No one has the kind of foresight necessary to keep something like a campaign setting going strong for 30 years. You can only have so many world-spanning, paradigm-shifting disasters before you start asking yourself, "Is this really better than a reboot? Is this really different than a reboot?"

 

[Raunalyn]

As a huge Dragonlance fan, I am cautiously optimistic. I loved everything D-lance prior to the Summer of Chaos. The world itself has a rich, well documented history, and it's simple to set a campaign at just about any time period and it remains Dragonlance.

That being said; I am nervous about Dragonlance post War of Souls; Weis and Hickman had a lot of pieces to pick up, and I feel that the resulting catastrophe is not worthy of the Dragonlance name (this is, of course, my personal opinion).

However, I don't see a reason why they can't do a reboot of the series. Heck, they even have a reasonable in-game mechanic for rebooting it, considering that time travel is an integral part of the world (I ran what became one of my favorite Dragonlance campaigns, where a future follower of the Queen of Darkness traveled back in time with one of the "disallowed" races and killed the companions before they could find the Dragonlance. The campaign was wonderfully dark, atmospheric, and hauntingly familiar to those who were familiar with the world).

As to how to do the various special classes in Dragonlance? That's easy...just use the different path options they've already built in. At 3rd level, you choose what path you want to take. Knights begin as warriors and choose to be a knight of the Crown, Sword or Rose at 3rd level. Mages take their tests at 3rd level and choose their robes. I even have an idea on how moon magic could work. Moon's in high sanction? Either you get advantage on all attack rolls for your spells, or the person being hit by your spell has disadvantage on their saving throws. And, vice versa for low sanction.

 

[DMZ2112]

As to how to do the various special classes in Dragonlance? That's easy...just use the different path options they've already built in. At 3rd level, you choose what path you want to take. Knights begin as warriors and choose to be a knight of the Crown, Sword or Rose at 3rd level.

That's not how the Knights work. All Knights of the Rose are first Knights of the Sword, and all Knights of the Sword are first Knights of the Crown. The vast majority of knights stay Knights of the Crown for their entire careers.

So what you need is a system that allows but does not require re-subclassing after 3rd level. Most Knight characters will be 20th-level Knights of the Crown, but some will be 20th-level Knights of the Sword who previously earned Crown abilities and a few will be 20th-level Knights of the Rose who previously earned both Sword and Crown abilities.

The Orders of High Sorcery are comparatively simple; I see no reason they would not work as you describe.

 

[bogmad]

That's not how the Knights work. All Knights of the Rose are first Knights of the Sword, and all Knights of the Sword are first Knights of the Crown. The vast majority of knights stay Knights of the Crown for their entire careers.

So what you need is a system that allows but does not require re-subclassing after 3rd level. Most Knight characters will be 20th-level Knights of the Crown, but some will be 20th-level Knights of the Sword who previously earned Crown abilities and a few will be 20th-level Knights of the Rose who previously earned both Sword and Crown abilities.

The Orders of High Sorcery are comparatively simple; I see no reason they would not work as you describe.

Seems like feats would be a great way to implement that. Subclass would be Knight of the Crown, and then you build feats whose prerequisite is the previous rank.

 

[the Jester]

Is that not standard at most tables? I would always have required that, even when there were established mechanical requirements to becoming a Knight of the Crown.

In my experience, when there are mechanical requirements, adding (EDIT: Or, sometimes, even enforcing) rp requirements in is the exception rather than the rule. But my experience may not be typical.

 

[Remathilis]

Seems like feats would be a great way to implement that. Subclass would be Knight of the Crown, and then you build feats whose prerequisite is the previous rank.

That is an easy way to do it; allow feats to augment/add abilities to the Knight of the Crown subclass.