D&D 5E Druid 20 = Infinite Hit Points

[Fanaelialae]

In fairness, it may simply be that the Circle Forms feature is not intended to interact with Archdruid, and that it's merely an oversight in the wording that they'll clarify in the first errata. I think we can all agree that having unlimited Wildshape into the forms of CR 1 beasts is not overpowered at 20. That would bring it more into line with what the other classes get at 20.

 

[Vowtz]

It seems the strongest defensive form druid can take is that of an earth elemental, I don't have the complete stats here, but it is something like 126 hp, resistance to damage, 17 AC.


And I just looked at the Tarrasque's stats, he is CR 30 and has no chance to harm a moon archdruid.

 

[77IM]

If the tarrasque hits with all 5 attacks plus a legendary claw he deals 176 damage. This is likely given his +19 attack bonus. If the bite grapples the druid, subsequent attacks are with advantage, giving about a 43% chance of inflicting at least 1 crit.

So, yeah, the moon archdruid can keep the tarrasque busy while the rest of the party takes him out, although it costs about 50 real, base hp per round. The druid has around 140-200 hp, so 4 rounds tops, without some other source of healing. Unless he gets swallowed, which is actually much better for the druid, hp-wise.


EDIT: I forgot the earth elemental's resistance! That does make him undamageable. Now I am questions the decision not to make the tarrasque's attacks magical.

 

[MightyZehir]

It seems the strongest defensive form druid can take is that of an earth elemental, I don't have the complete stats here, but it is something like 126 hp, resistance to damage, 17 AC.


And I just looked at the Tarrasque's stats, he is CR 30 and has no chance to harm a moon archdruid.

So...Tarrasque's not going kill the druid , just have to swallow him and focus on others. Have you read my other posts? There are plenty of ways to deal with the druid. Being alive ain't the same as being OP.

 

[MightyZehir]

If the tarrasque hits with all 5 attacks plus a legendary claw he deals 176 damage. This is likely given his +19 attack bonus. If the bite grapples the druid, subsequent attacks are with advantage, giving about a 43% chance of inflicting at least 1 crit.

So, yeah, the moon archdruid can keep the tarrasque busy while the rest of the party takes him out, although it costs about 50 real, base hp per round. The druid has around 140-200 hp, so 4 rounds tops, without some other source of healing. Unless he gets swallowed, which is actually much better for the druid, hp-wise.


EDIT: I forgot the earth elemental's resistance! That does make him undamageable. Now I am questions the decision not to make the tarrasque's attacks magical.

To be honest, If the DM wants to deal with the moon druid, there are plenty of ways. Plus, doing these kinds of maths is pretty pointless, since D&D is not monster versus players in a pit fight, there are plenty of story elements involved.

 

[Vowtz]

So...Tarrasque's not going kill the druid , just have to swallow him and focus on others. Have you read my other posts? There are plenty of ways to deal with the druid. Being alive ain't the same as being OP.

Yes, you say that being alive is pointless unless you are useful, but remember that this druid, on top of ultra healthy, is a capable caster, he is far from useless.

Even without his spells, given enough time, he will own all damage dealing critters.

On event that his friends die, he can cast True Ressurrection instead of Foresight the next day, if he is confident that his friend will not die again.

If the tarrasque hits with all 5 attacks plus a legendary claw he deals 176 damage. This is likely given his +19 attack bonus. If the bite grapples the druid, subsequent attacks are with advantage, giving about a 43% chance of inflicting at least 1 crit.


So, yeah, the moon archdruid can keep the tarrasque busy while the rest of the party takes him out, although it costs about 50 real, base hp per round. The druid has around 140-200 hp, so 4 rounds tops, without some other source of healing. Unless he gets swallowed, which is actually much better for the druid, hp-wise.




EDIT: I forgot the earth elemental's resistance! That does make him undamageable. Now I am questions the decision not to make the tarrasque's attacks magical.

Maybe we will have that rule that "natural attacks can bypass damage types you are resistant."

If so then the moon archdruid would have to rely on his spells to fight the tarrasque, with serious chance of being defeated!

 

[MightyZehir]

Yes, you say that being alive is pointless unless you are useful, but remember that this druid, on top of ultra healthy, is a capable caster, he is far from useless.

Even without his spells, given enough time, he will own all damage dealing critters.

On event that his friends die, he can cast True Ressurrection instead of Foresight the next day, if he is confident that his friend will not die again.

Maybe we will have that rule that "natural attacks can bypass damage types you are resistant."

If so then the moon archdruid would have to rely on his spells to fight the tarrasque, with serious chance of being defeated!

Let's be honest, Tarrasque might be a classic monster, but it's not as dangerous as casters at that level of play. Spells and magic are way more potent than any regular monsters.

And yes, the druid is not useless because he can cast spells, his hit points help but the hit points didn't make him better than other classes.

Regarding the issue of resurrection, that depends on the DM and what kind of game he runs and that spell cost some decent amount of gold.

At 20 level, the only thing that I would worry about as a DM is did the players find some spell combos that can destroy encounters and not a moondruid taking a long time to kill.

 

[Andor]

You seem to be really impressed by that ability.

Like I already said, calling a god is not game breaking because it is completely up to DM, it can be auto win or auto lose, can be strong or can suck. You have no control about it.

Consider it from an in world perspective for a moment. If the King has an audience with a Cleric and a Druid to determine which religion his Kingdom will follow. "Demonstrate your greatest power to me." he says. Who is going to impress him more, the guy who gets him face time with Pelor, or the guy who does a one man production of Madegascar?

 

[SilverfireSage]

It seems the strongest defensive form druid can take is that of an earth elemental, I don't have the complete stats here, but it is something like 126 hp, resistance to damage, 17 AC.


And I just looked at the Tarrasque's stats, he is CR 30 and has no chance to harm a moon archdruid.

So the Tarrasque just focuses on the rest of the group because the Moon druid even as an earth elemental is barely doing any damage. Then when the rest of the group is dead, the Tarrasque can simply do a war of attrition with the druid until finally the damage is too great.

 

[sithramir]

I agree it probably isn't over powerful in actual play at that level. It does make it seem that a few of the other level 20 powers should be more "equal"?

What I keep hearing people say about 5e is to not compare every single power to "combat". For instance, it would be frustrating for your level 20 Druid in some Epic situation to stop and say "sorry i can't wildshape anymore". That seems wrong for level 20 to me.

Perhaps if, in play, it showed too powerful it just can be tweaked to take longer between wildshapes during each encounter?

If a battle goes several rounds perhaps it's 1d4 before he can do it again?

I love higher level campaigns but, as many have stated, it won't be having a ton of HPs that will be the earth shattering problem in most cases. I do love the case of "let's send the Druid to try to retrieve that powerful artifact protected by a hoard of archers". He can probably take the beating of a 1000 arrows being shot at him and make it back...probably.