Dual Classed Characters

[Nine Hands]

As part of an experiment, I was fiddling with the idea of allowing old school multiclassed characters.

Basically, you pick two classes, take some of the class abilities of each and combine them together into a new "single" class. You pick powers from either class and progress as a normal character, with the intention that the character will split his powers mostly evenly.

Armor proficiencies are the worst of both classes, weapon proficiencies are the best.

Hit Points are an average (rounded down), while Healing Surges Per Day are an average (rounded up).

Class features where hand picked for each class and the Bonus to Defense was an amalgamation of each classes saves without any specific ruling on my part.

The design intent is to allow for dual classed characters but keep them from overshadowing a single classed character. The first thing I noticed was that two classes of the same role "felt" wrong. I could see Ranger/Rogue or Warlock/Rogue being a bit overpowering, so I skipped those. Secondly, I wanted an real old school feel for this, which I think I achieved.

Any constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.





Cleric/Fighter (Divine Leader/Martial Defender)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healing Word, Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent


Cleric/Paladin (Divine Leader/Divine Defender)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, martial melee, simple ranged
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 9 + Constitution score

Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int)

Class Features: Channel Divinity (both classes), Healer’s Lore, Lay on Hands


Cleric/Ranger (Divine Leader/Martial Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion and Dungeoneering or Nature (your choice). From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healing Word, Fighting Style, Hunter’s Quarry


Cleric/Rogue (Divine Leader/Martial Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, simple ranged, shuriken
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion, Stealth and Thievery. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcane (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healing Word, Sneak Attack, Rogue Tactics


Cleric/Warlock (Divine Leader/Arcane Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, simple ranged
Implement: Holy symbol, rods, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healing Word, Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Pact, Warlock’s Curse



Cleric/Wizard (Divine Leader/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, simple ranged
Implement: Holy symbol, orbs, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 11 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana and Religion. From the class skills list below, choose two more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcane (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Int), Religion (Int)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healing Word, Cantrips, Spellbook


Fighter/Ranger (Martial Defender/Martial Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Dungeoneering or Nature (your choice). From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Streetwise (Cha), Stealth (Dex)

Class Features: Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent, Fighting Style, Hunter’s Quarry


Fighter/Rogue (Martial Defender/Martial Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged, shuriken
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Stealth and Thievery. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent, Sneak Attack, Rogue Tactics


Fighter/Warlock (Martial Defender/Divine Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Implement: Rods, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose four trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent, Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Pact, Warlock’s Curse


Fighter/Warlord (Martial Defender/Martial Leader)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail; light shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose four trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Streetwise (Cha)

Class Features: Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent, Commanding Presence, Inspiring Word



Fighter/Wizard (Martial Defender/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Implement: Orbs, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Will, +1 Fortitude

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Int), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha)

Class Features: Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent, Cantrips, Spellbook


Paladin/Ranger (Divine Defender/Martial Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion and Dungeoneering or Nature (your choice). From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Lay on Hands, Fighting Style, Hunter’s Quarry


Paladin/Rogue (Divine Defender/Martial Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, shuriken
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion, Stealth and Thievery. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Lay on Hands, Sneak Attack, Rogue Tactics

Paladin/Warlock (Divine Defender/Arcane Striker)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged
Implement: Rods, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Lay on Hands, Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Pact, Warlocks Curse


Paladin/Warlord (Divine Defender/Martial Leader)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail; light shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 9 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Lay on Hands, Commanding Presence, Inspiring Word


Paladin/Wizard (Divine Defender/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged
Implement: Holy symbol, orb, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution score

Trained Skills: Arcana and Religion. From the class skills list below, choose two more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Int), Religion (Int)

Class Features: Channel Divinity, Lay on Hands, Cantrips, Spellbook


Ranger/Warlord (Martial Striker/Martial Leader)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Dungeoneering or Nature. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex)

Class Features: Hunter’s Quarry, Fighting Style, Commanding Presence, Inspiring Word


Ranger/Wizard (Martial Striker/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Implement: Orbs, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 11 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana and Dungeoneering or Nature (your choice). From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex)

Class Features: Fighting Style, Hunter’s Quarry, Cantrips, Spellbook


Rogue/Warlord (Martial Striker/Martial Leader)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, shuriken
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Fortitude, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Stealth and Thievery. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Sneak Attack, Rogue Tactics, Commanding Presence, Inspiring Word


Rogue/Wizard (Martial Striker/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, short sword
Implement: Orbs, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 11 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana, Stealth and Thievery. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Sneak Attack, Rogue Tactics, Spellbook, Cantrips


Warlock/Warlord (Arcane Striker/Martial Leader)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged
Implement: Rods, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose four trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Pact, Warlock’s Curse, Commanding Presence, Inspiring Word


Warlock/Wizard (Arcane Striker/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, simple ranged
Implement: Orbs, rods, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 11 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Acrana. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Pact, Warlock’s Curse, Spellbook, Cantrips


Warlord/Wizard (Martial Leader/Arcane Controller)

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged
Implement: Orbs, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 11 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Int), Religion (Int)

Class Features: Cantrips, Spellbook, Commanding Presence, Inspiring Word

I have included a PDF of this as well.

 

[SteelCoyote]

Is it missing Ranger/Rogue or am I blind?

 

[erik_the_guy]

I don't see the point. It seems like a lot of work for something that will only be a little different than the current offering of cross class feats. Sorry, but I don't think I would want to bother with the extra rules and book keeping.

 

[Nine Hands]

Is it missing Ranger/Rogue or am I blind?

The Ranger and Rogue classes are both strikers, something I noticed was that things got a bit wonky when you combined two classes of the same role, so I skipped all of them. There are no Cleric/Warlords either.

 

[Nine Hands]

I don't see the point. It seems like a lot of work for something that will only be a little different than the current offering of cross class feats. Sorry, but I don't think I would want to bother with the extra rules and book keeping.

Well the point was to allow old school multiclassing. I also would rather use a Cleric/Fighter multiclass instead of the current multiclassing rules, which are more of a book keeping nightmare.

Since 90% of the class is presented up front, I don't see the problem with using them. When making a character you need the combined class information, but afterwards, you never need to reference it, since its already on your character sheet.

Also this system gives the multiclassed characters full access to class abilities, which means they can qualify for paragon paths as well.

 

[shinobi_guyver]

The idea is pretty good, but there feels like there's a couple of kinks to work out.

And with the introduction of Paragon Paths, it gets a bit trickier.

I say that if you really want old style multiclassing, give the players 2 options. Either let them do normal multiclassing (by 4E rules) and access their appropriate Paragon Path, or let them do old multiclassing and not take a Paragon Path.

I don't really see a need to exclude Epic Tier abilities, because they are more generalized paths than Paragon.

 

[Slaved]

I like it!

Do they get one At-Will Attack Power from each Class at Level One?

For Skills I think that you should Split the Skill Selection into Different Parts. Half of the Skill Selection from most of the Skill Options for each.

You can do the Half Option for Armor and Weapons as well. I would Favor Heavier Armors while Disfavoring Weapons.

When new Powers are Gained or Retrained does the Dual Class Character need to Split the Choices? Maybe there could be a Built-In Attribute Dependency so that only the Best of the Best for this Dual Class will be able to get far.

Balance will be Tricky. Combinations of Powers from Different Classes is Very Complex. It could be Required to use up Three Feats from the Heroic Tier and to not allow the Dual Class to take a Paragon Path, instead the Dual Classed Character would get a Heroic Tier Feat at Level 11, 16, and 20.

 

[Zelc]

I don't get it . What does a dual-classed character give up to be dual-classed? For instance, let's say I want to make a Wizard. From what I can tell, a Wizard/Warlock is better than a pure Wizard in all ways. Did I miss something?

 

[Nine Hands]

I don't get it . What does a dual-classed character give up to be dual-classed? For instance, let's say I want to make a Wizard. From what I can tell, a Wizard/Warlock is better than a pure Wizard in all ways. Did I miss something?

The Wizard class normally provides Arcane Implement Mastery and Ritual Casting, dual classed characters do not get this. Warlocks normally get Shadow Walk and Prime Shot, dual classed characters do not get this.

Now Arcane Implement Mastery is pretty important, Ritual Casting can be picked up with just a feat. Prime Shot isn't the greatest ability in the world either, Shadow Walk is pretty useful from what I can see.

So a Wizard/Warlock never has all of the class features of a Wizard and a Warlock, this goes for the rest of the classes as well. I don't want a single classed character to be outclassed (pun intended) by any dual classed character.

 

[Nine Hands]

The idea is pretty good, but there feels like there's a couple of kinks to work out.

And with the introduction of Paragon Paths, it gets a bit trickier.

I say that if you really want old style multiclassing, give the players 2 options. Either let them do normal multiclassing (by 4E rules) and access their appropriate Paragon Path, or let them do old multiclassing and not take a Paragon Path.

I don't really see a need to exclude Epic Tier abilities, because they are more generalized paths than Paragon.

This is exactly my plan.