Dungeons & Dragons has 15 Million Players in NA Alone; Storyline Is "The Da Vinci Code meets Gangs o

Interesting. The following tidbit has me excited about the new storyline: “The Stream of Many Eyes” ... story — which will be revealed on June 1 — was described by one D&D staffer as 'The Da Vinci Code meets Gangs of New York.'”

Interesting. The following tidbit has me excited about the new storyline:

“The Stream of Many Eyes” ... story — which will be revealed on June 1 — was described by one D&D staffer as 'The Da Vinci Code meets Gangs of New York.'”
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
"The Da Vinci Code meets Gangs of New York."

So a conspiracy investigation amidst an industrial revolution with civil unrest?

island_cover.jpg
... what a peculiar coincidence...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

darjr

I crit!
Yes, that’s the conclusion I have come to as well.

Which leads me, as a hobbyist who has loved the game since 1982, to wonder: how do I help D&D keep going strong?

One thing I can do is what I always do. Run games, talk about the game occasionally in real life and of social media, and invite new people to join.

And I guess on here, be nice and inviting to new people?

Sounds about right, though I am concerned that I don’t buy D&D like I did, since I still run 3.5e, I guess I am helping by supporting the brand.

Also help others to step up and start DMing. Even if a couple of times at first.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I think you’re underestimating how many people play as a family - in which case the split may be 50/50 or higher and will raise the average. I have every reason to think that once one of the couples in our group’s daughter is old enough, she will play too - we game in their living room.

This.

While the vast majority of players in the 70s and 80s may have been men, they grew up. Many married. Many had kids and many of those kids were girls. I number of the younger women that I've played in games with over the past few years got into the game because their dad's got them into it.

These days, however, I think Twitch streams and podcasts probably have an even greater influence on attracting a new generation of women to the game.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I agree. This announcement is basically "Knowing the Unknowable".

-How do they know how many players there are? <snip> Another totally fabricated number.

These numbers are pretty clearly from a market survey study. While WotC may not do very good surveys---I have no idea---these kinds of projections can be done well. For example, unemployment numbers and crime victimization statistics are both done, in whole or part, by surveys. For instance, if you want to determine the number of crime victims, you do a survey and then try to extrapolate. What these numbers do NOT have is an uncertainty estimate, although they did do the responsible thing and round them pretty drastically (e.g., "40%" rather than "43%").

There are companies that do this very well, so I'd hope that WotC would have hired one rather than, say, trying to gin one up themselves on Survey Monkey for cheap. After writing good questions, getting meaningful uncertainty estimates and dealing with sampling biases are the really hard parts of surveys.

Source: Self. I am a statistician in real life. I have no connection to WotC and am not really a survey statistician by trade so I don't know the minutiae of how this specific survey would be done. However, I have helped design and analyze surveys and these kinds of questions are all, in principle, answerable and based on well-understood, if sometimes counterintuitive, statistical theory.



I have to wonder if this misleading data (at best) has a correlation to the recent Hasbro report that I understand indicates that Magic the Gathering has dropped by significant double digit percentages?
For that I have no clue.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
D&D *did* go away. Like properly. Stopped being published. Lots of people kept playing it, nonetheless.

Then WotC bought TSR and announced 3E, and this website was born.

Sort of, it was still possible to get TSR stuff during that time. TSR was on the edge of bankruptcy in 1996 and was purchased by WotC in early 1997, which was awash in money at the time. I don't think anyone was really expecting D&D to totally disappear, though there was a lot of uncertainty at the time. Publication resumed fairly fast. It was a valuable property that would be bought by someone (much like Gibson Guitars, which recently declared bankruptcy). 3E wasn't announced until GenCon 1999, though nobody was too surprised. So there are two years there between WotC acquiring TSR and 3E.

The OGL wasn't an unmixed blessing though, given how it created a glut of material.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
If the movies and multimedia ends up being as profitable as they hope, I wonder what effect that will have on the products we get for the RPG. I miss the setting branding, but I'm guessing that either way it's gone for good (unless there's licensing).
About what we are seeing now, on all likelihood. They have designed an evergreen product cycle that can account for major media boosts.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
The closest thing they could do is cold call people, or survey some game shops. The most likely thing they could do is survey game shops in their HQ region, which given the culture in their area, is going to give them *extremely* bad information. I don't think anyone would try to assert that Seattle is equivalent to anything other than a few cities in CA, and very different from everywhere else.

Of course they didn’t survey Seattle. What a silly thing to say.
 


Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
Only when you have a known population that you can survey. You can survey a city. You can survey the attendees of a movie, play, sports game, etc.

You cannot survey an unknown population. When your product is a set of three books, and n number of people in a group need only one set, you cannot tell how many people are there, what their sex is, or how often they play.

The numbers presented here are about as accurate as randomly generated values. They have no way of knowing how many people play, no way of contacting them, they're blind.

You are engaging in a false dichotomy. In fact, a city isn't a simple known population, and this one isn't an entirely unknown population. In fact there are ways to determine population sizes if you want to know that, for instance capture-recapture methods, which don't actually require ear tags or leg bands to make work. The reality is that early questions in the survey are used to filter out people who are ineligible and shouldn't be counted. I'm sure there are a few people who slip in or get excluded, but even then there are methods to correct for this reasonably well.


The closest thing they could do is cold call people, or survey some game shops. The most likely thing they could do is survey game shops in their HQ region, which given the culture in their area, is going to give them *extremely* bad information. I don't think anyone would try to assert that Seattle is equivalent to anything other than a few cities in CA, and very different from everywhere else.

No survey will be perfect, but given some triangulating information it's quite possible to reality check it. A responsible survey analyst will do these things. There are also ways to check the response rates against hard(er) numbers, such as sales figures, return figures, numbers from the book trade vs game shop distributors vs online, etc. These are things that publishers check all the time. I know for fact that WotC can because they are distributed by Random House.

Now, there are ways they could be very, very wrong, typically when the sampling is flawed. For instance, their Unearthed Arcana weekly surveys were clearly quite flawed due to the fact that they were totally volunteer with no attempt at outreach beyond what was posted on their web page. So if WotC is trying to determine things like the numbers they report from surveys like that, it would be really bad.

As I said in another post, I don't know who WotC hired to do this work and it's possible they didn't do it properly. Certainly you can't count on WotC to be anything but self-flattering with their announcements. However, survey companies like Qualtrics and YouGov really do know what they're doing and the principles are pretty well understood. I took an entire doctoral class in grad school on the topic despite survey research not being my area. People get their PhDs on it and spend their entire career working in the area. These are precisely the people that Qualtrics and YouGov hire.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


Remove ads

Remove ads

Top