Dwarves in Kingdoms of Kalamar

[Tyrol]

I'm playing a 3.5 campaign in the setting of Kingdoms of Kalamar.

The dwarven racial statistics are described as follows in the KoK book with 3.5 adaptation guide:

Hill Dwarves: Hill dwarves are identical to the base dwarves in the 3.5 Player's Handbook except in the following areas:
• Automatic Languages: Dwarven and Merchant's Tongue.

Mountain Dwarves: Mountain dwarves are identical to hill dwarves except in the following areas:
• +2 Con, -2 Wis.
• Mountain dwarves gain a +2 racial bonus on Survival checks made in mountainous areas.

Stone Dwarves: Stone dwarves are identical to hill dwarves except in the following areas:
• +2 Con, -2 Int.
• Darkvision 120 ft.
• Stone dwarves don’t get any Weapon Familiarity. Their remote living habits made them less picky about their weapon choices.
• Skirmisher ability: Stone Dwarves gain the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when wearing light armor and using two light weapons.
• +1 racial bonus to attack when using a light weapon.
• As cavedwellers, Stone Dwarves are hardy and resilient. They gain the Stone Bones feat (+1 natural AC) for free. Surface dwelling dwarves with the Stone Bones feat probably had some Stone Dwarf ancestors.
• Stone Dwarves are cave dwellers and need to climb a lot. They gain a racial +2 to climb checks.
• Stone Dwarves have no racial bonus vs. giants, orcs, or goblinoids.
• +2 racial bonus when using hide, move silently, or search skills underground.
• +1 racial bonus to attack when fighting dark elves, troglodytes, mind flayers, and grimlocks.
• +4 racial bonus on craft checks related to stone. No bonus to checks related to metal.
• No bonus to appraise checks related to stone or metal.
• Automatic Languages: Dwarven and Undercommon.
• Favored Class: Rogue.

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Two of the five players in the campiagn have expressed interest in creating a stone dwarf two-weapon melee class, putting a spotlight on whether or not the stone dwarf is balanced as written. I am looking for opinions on whether or not it should be tweaked, possibly needing a Level Adjustment.

Thanks,
Tyrol

 

[Deset Gled]

I find the races in KoK to be generally unbalanced against the core races. The problem is that in most cases, though they are significantly more powerful, they aren't quite powerful enough to justify a LA +1.

This specific case is pretty darned powerful. Considering the two bonus feats, I'd feel okay with a LA+1. To make it more balanced without a LA, I'd take out both free feats (TWF and Stone Bones).

 

[Tyrol]

I find the races in KoK to be generally unbalanced against the core races. The problem is that in most cases, though they are significantly more powerful, they aren't quite powerful enough to justify a LA +1.

This specific case is pretty darned powerful. Considering the two bonus feats, I'd feel okay with a LA+1. To make it more balanced without a LA, I'd take out both free feats (TWF and Stone Bones).

Thanks for your opinion

One player has suggested the following counter balance, to avoid the level adjustment:
A 'dazzled' tag when in light or otherwise bright conditions (-1 atk, spot, search)
-2 to charisma

Both of these would make sense from an RP perspective, based on the racial description of Stone Dwarves in the KoK player's guide.

What do you think? Do you think that is adequate enough to avoid an LA?

 

[Deset Gled]

Personally, I am of the oppinion that no race (without LA) should ever give free feats. A free feat is the signature bonus of the human race. It is also the balancing factor that I use to judge races by. If the abilities granted are far more or less powerful than a feat (which, admitedly, is variable), it's not well balanced. In this case, two feats and a slew of other fun abilities (especialy the bonus with light weapons, which is more valuable than Weapon Focus on it's own) is far too powerful.

In this specific case, I don't see those two changes to be very effective. The "dazzled" really only has the effect of cancelling out the +1 bonus to hit that this race has with light weapons (which I'm assuming the characters will be doing, from what you said earlier), and it's still only situational (sure, this will be a pain if their walking down the road in boad daylight, but it will have no effect at all in a dungeon crawl or a bar fight). Since TWF often focus primarily on strength and dexterity, charisma will probably then become the dump stat. Giving it a penalty won't change much of anything.

If you're going to give sensitivity to light, make it be of a degree that will still affect the characters; perhaps they become stunned for a round when a bright light is shined in their eyes? If you're going to give another stat a penalty, make it one that means something to classes that the character will be taking. I'd suggest dexterity.

In summary, the race is still much more powerful than it should be.

 

[Tyrol]

Personally, I am of the oppinion that no race (without LA) should ever give free feats. A free feat is the signature bonus of the human race. It is also the balancing factor that I use to judge races by. If the abilities granted are far more or less powerful than a feat (which, admitedly, is variable), it's not well balanced. In this case, two feats and a slew of other fun abilities (especialy the bonus with light weapons, which is more valuable than Weapon Focus on it's own) is far too powerful.

Keep in mind that the stone dwarf gives up Weapon Familiarity, which is essentially 2 Exotic Weapon Proficiency feats (one of which is quite popular, for use of a 1-handed d10 weapon (dwarven war axe)). So they're giving up those 2 free exotic feats for Two Weapon Fighting with restrictions on it (light armor and light weapons). I think that is a fair trade that would be in-line with a different weapon (stone dwarf) upbringing.

As for the +1 with light weapons, thats where I thought something along the lines of dazzled would be in line as a counterbalance. Perhaps make it minus-2? or the stunned for 1 round in bright light, as you said.

The -2 to another stat would really only make sense on charisma, at least from a roleplay/flavor perspective based on the race description in the player's guide. It would mostly be to compensate for the small (1 AC) NA bonus. I'm trying to preserve the flavor of the race as much as I can.

Worth mentioning is that characters are starting at level 3.

 

[Tyrol]

Another option that has been presented to balance the +1 atk with light weapons is to say that it would not stack with Weapon Focus, much like the masterwork attack bonus doesn't stack with magic attack bonuses. Since both the two weapon fighters were planning on having/getting weapon focus almost immediately with their characters, this effectively renders this benefit null and void for them.

Whatcha think?

 

[Darklone]

Hello. I made these update sheets.

The Stonebones were added later for flavor (and to make up for the moving in armour special of the other dwarves which for the stonedwarves cancels their other abilities), the TWF feat and the +1 to hit with light weapons is supposed to make up for the dwarven dodge bonus vs. giants and the missing weapon familiarities as well as the missing +1 to hit vs. the more frequent surfacial enemies kobolds, orcs etc...

Compared to the PHB dwarf I don't think it's an LA or even partially stronger.

 

[Deset Gled]

Compared to the PHB dwarf I don't think it's an LA or even partially stronger.

Hmm, perhaps I should have prefaced my oppinions by stating that I think the dwarf is probably the worst balanced of all the core races to begin with. IMC, dwarves do not get the free weapon proficiencies, as I view that change as just adding insult to injury. Also, I am comparing the balance of this race to othe core races; as I said before, there are a lot of races in KoK that are just plain more powerful than normal races. So, depending on your game, you might want to take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Getting back to the topic of these specific dwarves, I think that giving +1 to hit with a specific type of weapon is a poor way to make up for giving away a +1 to hit against a specific type of energy. The one is something that a character will have all the time (especially considering all the synergies this class has with that fighting style), at the other is completely situational and DM dependent. The +1 to hit with light weapons is definetally the better of the two.

Also, I see the TWF freebie to be more powerful in nature that the EWP. The EWP gives, in general, an extra point of damage or so to every attack, and it can be argued that it is done as much for flavor as for power. TWF gives bonus attacks, and is a clearly tactical feat. The TWF feat is also a great synergy with the afformentioned bonus to hit with light weapons.

Also to consider is the new bonuses to skills (search, hide, move silently) are quite useful (again with great synergy with the rogue class, and help to cancel out the effect of the -2 to intelligence), as is the significant increase in darkvision range.

It's really not that there's any one bonus of this race that's obviously overpowering, it's the combination of a lot of things that are slightly more powerful being added on top of the race that is already slightly more powerful. There were a lot of small things taken out that weren't overly synergetic, and they were replaced with things that were all slightly more powerful and much more synergetic. The net result: a race that is overpowered.

As for balancing, I stand by my original point of giving up the free feats. If you think that doing so is taking away the entire purpose of the race, then that's probably a good indication of why this race needs altering. Furthermore, I wouldn't put too much faith in using brightness as a counterbalance. IMHO, you just can't balance something racial with something situational. It's akin to trying to balance with RP restrictions; it just doesn't seem to work. As for making the +1 to light weapons not stack with Weapon Focus, why not make everything simpler and just get rid of it entirely? Also, I think that a -2 to dexterity would make sense from an RP standpoint (these dwarves are rough and tough, not overly nimble, correct?), and would mean a lot more to the characters than a -2 to charisma (which would probably only make a difference if they took ranks in UMD).

 

[Tyrol]

Hello. I made these update sheets.

The Stonebones were added later for flavor (and to make up for the moving in armour special of the other dwarves which for the stonedwarves cancels their other abilities), the TWF feat and the +1 to hit with light weapons is supposed to make up for the dwarven dodge bonus vs. giants and the missing weapon familiarities as well as the missing +1 to hit vs. the more frequent surfacial enemies kobolds, orcs etc...

Compared to the PHB dwarf I don't think it's an LA or even partially stronger.

So you are one of the authors, adapters, and/or editors of the Kingdoms of Kalamar® Player’s Guide™ v.3.5 adaptation?
(Adapted by Tilmann Berger, Edited by Brian Jelke and Joe Selby)

If so, that would be sweet

 

[Tyrol]

Some very valid points, Deset. Thanks very much for your input. I do agree somewhat that the 3.5 dwarf might be a tad overpowered. However, it is a core race balanced by WotC, so its all we have to go on.

I think the compromise being reached for my campaign is to drop the +1 to atk with light weapons entirely, and to add a -2 charisma penalty.

Excerpts from The Stone Dwarf description in the KoK Player's guide:

Stone dwarves live deep underground, rarely encountering humans at all. Whether because they live in remote caverns, their enemies bar them from it, or they simply do not wish to make the effort, stone dwarves often spend their entire lives apart from non-dwarven races. Stone dwarves live brutal, demanding lives and have less respect for intangible rewards than their cousins nearer the surface.
Stone dwarves are masterful miners, and their race has delved far and deep below the surface of Tellene. Here they have often encountered other subterannean races, and they wage a constant war against these evil races. As a result, stone dwarves have developed a unique fighting style for fighting in small caverns and confined passageways.
Personality: Stone dwarves are usually harsh and unkind, clear reflections of the world they inhabit. They live in small families that remain independent even of each other, though they band together when an outside threat calls for mutual protection. Stone dwarves are reticent. A long-winded stone dwarf is shunned by his peers.

The isolationist attitude and the harsh and unkind personality are the basis for the -2 charisma penalty. Nowhere in the description did we find something to justify a dexterity penalty, though I can see where you are coming from.