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Dwarves make as good/better primal characters than elves.

Alabast

First Post
I love how 4e makes certain races just better at certain classes, but with so many races and classes, and only six ability scores to assign as primary stats, they were bound to get some unintended overlap.

One funny consequences is that while elves have always been the "woodsy and nature-y" race, dwarves actually outpace them in the primal classes, thanks to the fact that Con is a key ability for EVERY one of them.

Barbarian: STR, CON, CHA Advantage: Dwarf (though that's to be expected)

Druid: WIS, DEX, CON Advantage: Push

Shaman: WIS, CON, INT Advantage: Dwarf

Warden: STR, WIS, CON Advantage: Dwarf. Though an elf at least makes up the some difference here by having at least a semi-decent Reflex with his dex bonus.

Seems strange, I know dwarves are supposed to be all pious in 4e, but they've never been mentioned as having an affinity for spirits. This is a situation where flavor and tradition has to trump hard numbers, I guess.
 

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DracoSuave

First Post
I don't see it as a problem. The Primal power source isn't 'treehugging hippies' but it's 'The primal spirits of the world.' Dwarves come from the world, are products of its stones and mountains, being the slaves to the giants. Elves come from the Feywild, which is another plane entirely--they are alien creatures who found the world more to their liking.

I have no problem with Dwarves having more connection to the primal forces that gave them life than the elves.
 

On Puget Sound

First Post
Other fun oddities:
The longtooth shifter (STR, WIS) is one of the best clerics. Who would have thought the furry critters were so devout?

Warforged (STR, CON) are also good primalists, particularly wardens. "I am the <CLANK, CLANK> spirit of the land!"

Gnolls (CON, DEX) aren't bad as wizards; I didn't even expect they could read, let alone read spellbooks.

Tieflings (CON,CHA), Drow (DEX, CHA) and Halflings (DEX, CHA) are all solid Paladins. I know there are paladins of all alignments now, but I think of all 3 of these races as sneaky, devious types, not knights in shining armor.

Dragonborn are the only race that can't fill all four roles with a relevant bonus; they are ineffective as any controller. (Not counting races in Monster Manual that have not yet been given a full PC write-up).

Gnolls, meanwhile, are the only (fully described) race so far without a class that ideally fits them; there is no CON-DEX class yet.

Shadar-Kai (DEX,INT) are not the best bards but they can certainly do well in the class. Do they play death metal or emo suicide ballads?
 

Danceofmasks

First Post
Well, some secondary stats aren't necessary at all.

For instance, I reckon I could build an awesome infernal warlock with a dex/con race ... especially if they're looking at an awesome stealth mod + shadow walk.
Oh noes. Fear those infernal kobolds.
 

Solodan

First Post
Seems strange, I know dwarves are supposed to be all pious in 4e, but they've never been mentioned as having an affinity for spirits. This is a situation where flavor and tradition has to trump hard numbers, I guess.

Are you sure about that?

Every dwarf I know sure loves his spirits, especially in a large mug.

I'm going to make a Dwarf Shaman and his spirit companion is going to be a barrel. :) That, or a Monkey with a rum barrel (Since I happen to have one from a warhammer empire sprue)
 


corwyn77

Adventurer
Other fun oddities:
The longtooth shifter (STR, WIS) is one of the best clerics. Who would have thought the furry critters were so devout?

Warforged (STR, CON) are also good primalists, particularly wardens. "I am the <CLANK, CLANK> spirit of the land!"

Coincidently, one of my players just made a Warforged Warden MC'd as a druid, reskinned as a treant. So, technically a treant who turns into a ...something, but we're treating it as a human who turns into a tree.

Okay, there is some handwaving going on, but still, WF as treant works fairly well.
 

Kinneus

Explorer
Other fun oddities:
The longtooth shifter (STR, WIS) is one of the best clerics. Who would have thought the furry critters were so devout?

Warforged (STR, CON) are also good primalists, particularly wardens. "I am the <CLANK, CLANK> spirit of the land!"

Gnolls (CON, DEX) aren't bad as wizards; I didn't even expect they could read, let alone read spellbooks.

Tieflings (CON,CHA), Drow (DEX, CHA) and Halflings (DEX, CHA) are all solid Paladins. I know there are paladins of all alignments now, but I think of all 3 of these races as sneaky, devious types, not knights in shining armor.

Dragonborn are the only race that can't fill all four roles with a relevant bonus; they are ineffective as any controller. (Not counting races in Monster Manual that have not yet been given a full PC write-up).

Gnolls, meanwhile, are the only (fully described) race so far without a class that ideally fits them; there is no CON-DEX class yet.

Shadar-Kai (DEX,INT) are not the best bards but they can certainly do well in the class. Do they play death metal or emo suicide ballads?

Meh. I'm just relieved that Dragonborn are actually good Dragon Magic Sorcerers. It'd be a rather silly oversight, otherwise.
 

Alabast

First Post
Are you sure about that?

Every dwarf I know sure loves his spirits, especially in a large mug.

I'm going to make a Dwarf Shaman and his spirit companion is going to be a barrel. :) That, or a Monkey with a rum barrel (Since I happen to have one from a warhammer empire sprue)

I say, ol' boy, well done! Good show! Good Show!
 

Everything makes a better X than elves. Elves and Half-elves are non-optimum for EVERY single build in the entire game, bar none. So what's new? Basically between Dragonborn and Half-orc you can be the optimum race for the VAST majority of all builds. Throw in humans, which are at least tied for optimum for a large percentage of the rest and you have nothing left over but a few outliers like Eladrin War Wizard.

Of course this says nothing about 'which build is best for race X' nor which race is best out of a choice of 2 races or a small subset of races. Overall most players start out with a race and class/build in mind that will work OK with that race or is just what they want to play. Certain other factors can come into play as well, like particular synergy between certain races and class features or powers. Still, overall there are a small subset of races that make the best adventurers, and oddly all the D&D classic races lose out pretty badly in that lineup, unless you consider Half-orc a classic race.
 

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