D&D General Edition Experience - Updated Survey Results, Jan 2021 (All Surveys)

[Zardnaar]

I wonder how many of those boxes were sold to parents, but then their kid thought "OMG I have to read all this??" and tossed it in a closet.

Who knows.

 

[Lanefan]

Speaking purely from personal experience, there's been three 'peaks' over the years - Golden Ages, if you will - based on overall level of interest and number of players/potential players in and around our general crew.

The first was about 1980-1984. A lesser peak came around 1989-1991.
The second was about 1999-2003.
The third was about 2008-2012.

And a fourth might just have been getting nicely underway, starting last year, until all this disease stuff got in the way.

The deepest 'valley', one that almost killed our gaming crew, came in roughly 1995-1998. Thanks, M:tG.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Forgotten edition pretty much is always gonna be OD&D or a variation of basic.

Golden age is probably whatever you played late teens/early 20s aka college years.

Modern editions will also poll better due to recency bias.

Nah, golden age is now. I’m 36.
The edition where I was in HS and college is my least favorite, followed by the one right before it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Is there a such thing as a "Forgotten Edition" of D&D? At what point is a game considered forgotten, and why?

I feel like RC D&D is the "forgotten edition", and I'd separate it from BECMI (I am aware that it is very closely related, kinda a compilation, but bear with me).

I think it's the "forgotten edition" for a few reasons:

1) It came out in 1991. So not that long after 2E. And at that time, I think most (definitely not all) people who played BECMI had either switched to 1E or 2E, were playing one of the massive array of new RPGs that had exploded out in the late '80s and '90-'91 (including Vampire, CP2020, Shadowrun, and so on) or had stopped playing (because they were at college, started work, or the like).

2) People who learned of it, tended to dismiss it. I saw this a lot on the early internet. "Oh that's just D&D, not AD&D, not interested!". At the time, being a teenager, I sorta believed this, but also having read RC D&D, I was sorta-super-impressed by it. Most people hadn't even read it, though, it seemed. More grog-y players tend to role their eyes at it for similar reasons.

3) It wasn't presented by TSR as an introduction to D&D. It didn't really have a clear purpose. I mean, in a sense it's classic TSR "competing with their own products" stuff. If you were an AD&D player, why would you buy it? If you were new to D&D/RPGs, there were other products for that, and it wasn't really linked to them.

As a result of all this, I think you have this small number of RC D&D evangelists, who have read it, and were really impressed by it, because, frankly it was accidentally way ahead of it's time design-wise, and a large number of people who just have never heard of it, or think of it simply as a compilation book for BECMI that's not really it's own thing (even though I would argue it was). And younger players tend to be aware that there's 1E-5E, and that there was "red box" D&D and sometimes that there was OD&D, but they are rarely aware of RC D&D at all, let alone of how well put-together it was.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The first was about 1980-1984. A lesser peak came around 1989-1991.
The second was about 1999-2003.
The third was about 2008-2012.

And a fourth might just have been getting nicely underway, starting last year, until all this disease stuff got in the way.

The deepest 'valley', one that almost killed our gaming crew, came in roughly 1995-1998. Thanks, M:tG.

This roughly fits with my experience (obviously I wasn't around playing in the 1980-1984 period). I feel like the 1991-1999 gap was largely down down to other RPGs becoming just huge, because D&D just didn't feel like it was keeping up (on so many levels). We criticise TSR, but I kind of suspect if TSR hadn't put out two brilliant settings, and a lot of mechanically-risky products, then D&D/AD&D might have become this rarely-played, half-forgotten RPG by 1996. And at that point it might not have been bought by WotC, but ended up somewhere else, where it might not have done as well. Sooner or later someone would have tried to capitalize on the IP, of course.

 

[atanakar]

s classic TSR "competing with their own products" stuff. If you were an AD&D player, why would you buy it? If you were new to D&D/RPGs, there were other products for that, and it wasn't really linked to them.

As a result of all this, I think you have this small number of RC D&D evangelists, who have read it, and were really impressed by it, because, frankly it was accidentally way ahead of it's time design-wise, and a large number of people who just have never heard of it, or think of it simply as a compilation book for BECMI that's not really it's own thing (even though I would argue it was). And younger players tend to be aware that there's 1E-5E, and that there was "red box" D&D and sometimes that there was OD&D, but they are rarely aware of RC D&D at all, let alone of how well put-together it was.

Those are good observations. I agree that Rules Cyclopedia is the forgotten edition. I did buy a used copy in the late 90s. I read it and it was a very detailed system with skills and combat maneuvers. I was too involved in 2e to want to give it a try. We played AD&D2e every time we could and had two concurrent campaigns by two different DMs. I would have tried other rpgs (ex.:vampire) before trying another «older» version of D&D.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I was too involved in 2e to want to give it a try. We played AD&D2e every time we could and had two concurrent campaigns by two different DMs. I would have tried other rpgs (ex.:vampire) before trying another «older» version of D&D.

Yeah. The only reason I'm aware of it is that, somehow even pre-internet, and even though he's two years younger than me, my brother had an incredible nose for really good or really interesting RPGs (same for music, the little bastard! At least I've got genre novels, sniff). I tended to go for the "obvious" ones (like Shadowrun, or RIFTS), but he'd find these amazing ones I'd never even heard of and wouldn't have looked at. I still remember the day in 1991, when he came home and tossed 1E Vampire on to my bed (he'd been out shopping in the West End with my parents), and I was like thinking "Well this looks stupid and for lame dorks" from the cover, and he's like "Read it, dude!" and I did, and was just jaw-to-the-floor astonished by how utterly cool it was (yes of course our campaigns were bit trenchcoats and katanas, we were teenagers! ).

Then I think later that year or the next he came home with RC D&D, and again my instinct was "Why would I play this? It's like AD&D but for younger kids, right?", but the he told me about it, and I read, and even as a youngling, I could see that this was something special, something remarkable. Essentially all of the PHB/DMG/MM but in a single book, and so elegantly put together, and so flowing. We never got to run it much precisely because of other RPGs, but wow, we both loved it. I still have it in usable condition, I was looking at it not that long ago.

 

[atanakar]

Then I think later that year or the next he came home with RC D&D, and again my instinct was "Why would I play this? It's like AD&D but for younger kids, right?", but the he told me about it, and I read, and even as a youngling, I could see that this was something special, something remarkable. Essentially all of the PHB/DMG/MM but in a single book, and so elegantly put together, and so flowing. We never got to run it much precisely because of other RPGs, but wow, we both loved it. I still have it in usable condition, I was looking at it not that long ago.

Actually if you read it again you will see that there are sometimes two rules for the same thing. They are printed side by side and it is up to the DM to decide which version he prefers.

Dark Dungeons is a clean up version of RC. Here is the final draft of the new second edition.

https://gurbintrollgames.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/dark_dungeons_final_draft.pdf

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Actually if you read it again you will see that there are sometimes two rules for the same thing. They are printed side by side and it is to the DM to decide which version he prefers.

Dark Dungeons is a clean up version of RC. Here is the final draft of the new second edition.

https://gurbintrollgames.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/dark_dungeons_final_draft.pdf

Yeah I suspect now I might be less kind in some ways (thought the line-art, I love it so much!), but by 1991/1992 design standards holy naughty word!

Downloaded Dark Dungeons so fast

 

[ccs]

It is strange the AD&D1e is so popular when the numbers Morrus just showed us says that 45+ are almost absent from the forum. 111 votes like it. Did we get a bunch of old grognards come back to EnWorld shortly to boost AD&D1e ?

You don't have to be 45+ to find & enjoy a good game you know.

I don't know how other 1e fans go about it, but in my circle we actively recruit new/younger players into our 1e games.