Elementals and Charm

[lukelightning]

So the elemental will feel really bad about being compelled to kill its best friend. That is all.

You could make a summoned creature eat its foot and there is nothing it can do. It must eat its foot. If your two summoned celestial badgers somehow fall in love, you can still make one kill the other without any resistance.

Note that I am talking about summoned, not called, creatures, vs. charm effects not vs. compultion/domination.

 

[catsclaw227]

Summoning a critter puts its will at your beck and call, Charming it makes it the charmer's best friend. If you are summoned, you have to kill, at your best ability, your summoner's foes. If your best friend in the multiverse is the foe, you 'll feel really bad about it, but thats it. Charm muddles your free will, being summoned overrides it.

So you are suggesting that when the erinyes charmed the summoned elemental, that it was esentially a wasted action, since the summoned creature MUST still obey it's summoner's commands?

What happends if (for sake of arguement) she dominated the summoned elemental.

 

[dedicated]

So you are suggesting that when the erinyes charmed the summoned elemental, that it was esentially a wasted action, since the summoned creature MUST still obey it's summoner's commands?

What happends if (for sake of arguement) she dominated the summoned elemental.

Yeah, for summons

opposed charisma checks

 

[frankthedm]

Actually each command would be against it's current nature as a summoned critter & would give it a new will save at +2.

Dominate Person
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject’s mind.

If you and the subject have a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire, within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “Come here,” “Go there,” “Fight,” and “Stand still.” You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.

Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action.

By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can’t communicate with you. You can’t actually see through the subject’s eyes, so it’s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what’s going on.

Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.

If you don’t spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination.

Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it.

Dominate Monster
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Target: One creature

This spell functions like dominate person, except that the spell is not restricted by creature type.

 

[catsclaw227]

Yea. I read this the other day.

I am still looking for some RAW that states that a summoned creature is under the "control" of the summoner and defines what this control means.

From the SRD under Summon Monster I.

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

This doesn't state that the creature is under complete control of the summoner, and to what extent that control exists.

Is there any other text in "official" books that cover this?

 

[frankthedm]

It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. That is the passage.

 

[Pielorinho]

Actually, it sounds to me as if they did this in combat. When you cast a charm spell in combat, the target gets a +5 to their save, don't they?

Daniel

 

[werk]

Actually, it sounds to me as if they did this in combat. When you cast a charm spell in combat, the target gets a +5 to their save, don't they?

So you consider a shadow conjured monster a viable target for charm monster, even though it's an illusion? This is the part I'm having trouble with.