Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer

[Kemrain]

I was looking to make a Rogue/Mage type class that gave up the Rogue's traps and sneak attack, and some of a Mage's spell versatility (more MP, Lists, signature's), but not power (MP limit), for improved Dispelling ability and catching up in the 'effective caster level' department. Under the EoMr rules, this is pretty easy to do, with a little creativity.

I already posted the Adaptive Dispelling feat earlier in this thread, and I figured this class would give that as a class ability, so it's being a little more powerful than a normal feat is more excusable.

I've been toying with an ability I'm calling "Overmastery Mastery," that'd reduce the Dispel check penalty when Overmastering, and might even reduce the MP required from 7 to 5.

Finally, I'm looking to figure out mechanics to create a new way to Counterspel that, with a steep DC, will give the Dispeller part of the Countered spell's MP. An abusable idea, but with the proper mechanics it could work.

I'm also thinking of granting them a bonus to effective caster level, meaning that a Rogue4/Mage4/XClass5 would add more than 9 to Caster Level Checks, upto but not exceeding their total Character Level.

I know I only have to pass these by my GM, but I'm still curious to see what the designer would say about them.

- Kemrain the Dispeller.

 

[Verequus]

I've collected some questions and here are all, I could write up in a complete form (damn, I'm busy...):

• Practiced Spellcaster: In the core rules (and Complete Divine), this feat simply increases caster level regarding the spell effects by four (capped by hit dice, so it is only useable for multiclassed casters). For spells per day, the possible spell level and other things, the caster level remains the same. Is a feat too powerful, which increases the MP limit for spells by four? (@Kemrain, aren't you looking for such a thing?)

• If you are in an antimagic zone, you have to beat the SR for casting a spell. But what about supernatural abilities? Those don't have a caster level - how can they beat the SR? Never? Are the hit dice the caster level? What if you have already a caster level? Will it be used, if the caster level is greater than the amount of hit dice?

• Can a Live-Sword cut a living being? Will it simply go through the victim? What's with clothes?

• Dispel Magic - Can certain spells excluded from dispelling and the anti-magic field? Can the signature of a certain mage be the trigger?

• Enlarge Person is how simulated?

• How can permanent magic effects without affectable by Dispel Magic created? For example, immortality or any form of crossbreeding?

• Drain Time: Partial actions have been removed from the game. You should replace the description with "The 'start full-round action' standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw."

• Maximize Spell: Should this metamagic feat still possible? After putting at least 15 MP into damage, the average damage result will be lower than the maximized version. Because the probability for average damage (or near of that) increases with more and more dice dramatically, such a feat would be must-have for archmages (level 17+).

The following questions are inspired by the Teleporting Bow. This magic item has Create Nature 0/Gen 0 (for creating normal arrows, which exist one minute) as permanent reusable spell with no use limitation (1000 XP) and Move Space 9/Gen 0 for teleporting arrows error-free within 800 ft with a 3/day limitation (8100 XP). The target loses the Dex bonus to AC.

• Teleport - how is the velocity and the direction of the subject changed? Can this simply be chosen? Personally, I would let only the direction of the subject be changed, not the velocity, because this could be abused as Move Death 5, except that the target can still move after the slow down. But what does this mean: "If a creature or object is stilled, it cannot move on its own power from its current spot." Hangs a flying creature mid-air?

• Could you please describe round-by-round the casting of a teleport - this line seems to imply, that one has to use at least two rounds: "One time in the spell’s duration, the affected creature can teleport up to the listed distance as a full-round action."

• "Example Thirteen: A magical tattoo artist imbues physical enhancements into tattoos. With a tiger tattoo, she grants one customer a permanent +2 Strength using Infuse Earth 1/Gen 1, at a cost of 400 XP to her, and 4000 gp to him." In this example, you charge 4000 gp for 400 XP - that's a factor of 10. Shouldn't the factor be 5 - or 25?

• "Reusable Spells: If you know Craft Charged Item and Craft Permanent Spell, you can grant a creature or object the ability to cast a spell. If used on a creature, that creature can cast the spell at will, and you can even grant it the ability to use entire spell lists. If used on an object, you can only give it signature spells, and must set specific conditions for when those spells will trigger." What type of action is "casting at will", what type of action occurs at the triggering? Can a bow be created, which creates a normal arrow every time the string is pulled (this means, one doesn't have to have a quiver)? If this bow can teleport arrows, how many rounds does it take to fire the bow?

 

[Kemrain]

Let me go through here and try to answer some of these questions to the best of my ability. RW, feel free to pick me apart. I won't answer them all, but I'll do my best.

• Practiced Spellcaster: In the core rules (and Complete Divine), this feat simply increases caster level regarding the spell effects by four (capped by hit dice, so it is only useable for multiclassed casters). For spells per day, the possible spell level and other things, the caster level remains the same. Is a feat too powerful, which increases the MP limit for spells by four? (@Kemrain, aren't you looking for such a thing?)

That is what I'm going for, but I think that increasing the MP Limit by 4 for one feat is outrageously overpowered. Raising it by 2, or even 1, is more what I had in mind, though I would still allow it to be taken more than once.

• If you are in an antimagic zone, you have to beat the SR for casting a spell. But what about supernatural abilities? Those don't have a caster level - how can they beat the SR? Never? Are the hit dice the caster level? What if you have already a caster level? Will it be used, if the caster level is greater than the amount of hit dice?

I'd say that the caster level in question is equal to HD or Caster Level, whichever is greater

• Can a Live-Sword cut a living being? Will it simply go through the victim? What's with clothes?

I assume you're talking about a Sword made with Create Life and the Elemental Object enhancement, yes? A sword made from Life would deal damage normally for a sword of it's type, save that it would deal an additional point of Life damage to any Death creature touching it, once per round.

• Enlarge Person is how simulated?

Try Transform Giant, or Transform Humanoid with the Strong Creature and Strong Defenses enhancements. This one is upto the GM, really.

• How can permanent magic effects without affectable by Dispel Magic created? For example, immortality or any form of crossbreeding?

Sounds to me like you're looking for Magic with an Instantanious duration. That's really the only way I can see to create the effects you're describing. Presently, AFAIK, only the Evoke and Heal lists have a duration of instantanious, and with good reason. If RW wants to explain his reasonings for this, I'm sure we'd all be pleased to hear it.

• Maximize Spell: Should this metamagic feat still possible? After putting at least 15 MP into damage, the average damage result will be lower than the maximized version. Because the probability for average damage (or near of that) increases with more and more dice dramatically, such a feat would be must-have for archmages (level 17+).

I think this feat was left out for a reason. Personally, I'm glad to see it go. Same with Empowered Spell. You want to do more damage, spend more MP on damage dice. If the Maximize feat were worth it in any situation, it would be worth it in every situation.

Hope this helps a little. Hope RW hasn't forgotten about this thread.

- Kemrain the Enlarged.

 

[RangerWickett]

Sorry for not replying for a while, but my computer has been giving me problems. I've got a good deal of work to catch up on, but once that's done I'll swing by and answer questions.

 

[Kemrain]

Thanks, RW. Hope your comp's behaving now.

- Kemrain the Pleased.

 

[Verequus]

Thank you, Kemrain, although I'm not entirely your opinions. Oh, why do use the addendums at the end of your posts? Frankly, I don't understand the meaning behind it (like I don't understand the Einstein's formula ).

[/list]That is what I'm going for, but I think that increasing the MP Limit by 4 for one feat is outrageously overpowered. Raising it by 2, or even 1, is more what I had in mind, though I would still allow it to be taken more than once.

You do understand, that there is hit dice cap for the caster level bonus? And using 4 levels means, that one can cast simply spells with the same power of full casters, but one doesn't have extra spell lists and extra spell points. This could result in casting of three maxed spells before running out of MP, if taken to the extreme. Isn't that balancing?

[/list]I'd say that the caster level in question is equal to HD or Caster Level, whichever is greater

This rule makes sense to me (but I've created, too ).

[/list]I assume you're talking about a Sword made with Create Life and the Elemental Object enhancement, yes? A sword made from Life would deal damage normally for a sword of it's type, save that it would deal an additional point of Life damage to any Death creature touching it, once per round.

Yes, I mean a sword made with Create Life. A human wouldn't take any damage, but his clothing is [Nature]. Furthermore, don't I remember a particular rule? I thought, Death creatures take always normal damage, if attacked with [Life].

[/list]Try Transform Giant, or Transform Humanoid with the Strong Creature and Strong Defenses enhancements. This one is upto the GM, really.

I'm the GM. While I understand Tranform Giant, I don't understand the latter.

[/list]Sounds to me like you're looking for Magic with an Instantanious duration. That's really the only way I can see to create the effects you're describing. Presently, AFAIK, only the Evoke and Heal lists have a duration of instantanious, and with good reason. If RW wants to explain his reasonings for this, I'm sure we'd all be pleased to hear it.

Exactly what I'm looking for!

[/list]I think this feat was left out for a reason. Personally, I'm glad to see it go. Same with Empowered Spell. You want to do more damage, spend more MP on damage dice. If the Maximize feat were worth it in any situation, it would be worth it in every situation.

No, not in every situation. I've used the following non-equation, where X is the amount of MP spent only for damage:

3.5X < 6(X-6)

3.5 is the average result of a d6, the first 6 is the maximized damage and the second 6 is the amount of MP spent for Maximize. You'll get:

X > 14.4

Actually, the reasoning behind this is, that the Gauss Curve increases the probability around the average result so much at high levels, that you could ignore the extremes. 1/(6^20) is the probality of a naturally maxed out fireball at level 20 - I would gladly take 84 poinst of damage (42 with save) instead 70. If you really want it scientific, then calculate the probality of having a higher damage without Maximize, and will see it yourself. I knew once the math...

Hope this helps a little. Hope RW hasn't forgotten about this thread.

- Kemrain the Enlarged.

Yes, at least I can discuss such issues.

And RangerWickett, could you please look at http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102051 and say, if a classless system still counts as dipping for armor proficiencies? Okay, there will be a lot of first level chars with armors (but don't have only wizards and sorcerers in the core rules no armor?), but it would simplify the feat enormously.

 

[Staffan]

That is what I'm going for, but I think that increasing the MP Limit by 4 for one feat is outrageously overpowered. Raising it by 2, or even 1, is more what I had in mind, though I would still allow it to be taken more than once.

I'm thinking raising the limit by 1, or 2 with a drawback (along the lines of taking ability damage when doing it) would be good for an open-ended feat. Increasing it by 4 sounds reasonable when capped to HD/character level, which would only make it useful for multiclassed characters.

On a different note, any word on when LA is coming out? Last I heard was "late August" and "after EN Arsenal: Whips."

 

[Kemrain]

Here's a thought...

Can I use a Targeted Antimagic to target Dispel Magic, to make Anti-Antimagic?

- Kemrain the Dispeller.

Oh, another thought... Do I need to use Transform Life to split an inanimate object, or could I just use Transform Nature? Splitting talks only about creatures. What if I needed to transform a blanket into a full set of clothing? Is Transform Nature enough?

- Kemrain the Alterer.

 

[Verequus]

I'm thinking raising the limit by 1, or 2 with a drawback (along the lines of taking ability damage when doing it) would be good for an open-ended feat.

You mean an increase of the caster level of +5 or even +6? That's hefty... Compare it to

Overchannel [Psionic]

You burn your life force to strengthen your powers.

Benefit

While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage.

The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance.

Normal

Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.

Basically, I'd like to have a feat without any drawback (compared to a pure caster of the same caster), if one casts a spell, because even with EoMR are multiclassed caster not so viable, if they multiclass into a non-spellcasting class.

Here's a thought...

Can I use a Targeted Antimagic to target Dispel Magic, to make Anti-Antimagic?

- Kemrain the Dispeller.

I've already asked the same question (actually, more "Can I dispel an antimagic field?"). Yes, you can, but you have to overcome the SR as usual.

 

[Staffan]

You mean an increase of the caster level of +5 or even +6? That's hefty...

I mean that a feat that allowed a single-classed Mage 5 to spend 6 MP on a spell "for free" or that allowed 7 MP with a drawback would be OK. I would also think that a feat that allowed a Mage 5/Fighter 4 to spend 9 MP on a spell (á la the +4 caster level benefit for "Practiced Spellcaster") might be OK.

In other words, one of:
+1 caster level without strings attached.
+2 caster level with drawback (e.g. ability damage).
+4 caster level limited to HD/character level.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually used the EoM rules, so I could be totally off-base.

Edit: Thinking about it a little more, even these might be broken under EoM. The "Practiced Spellcaster" thing is balanced, because while you get a bonus to caster level, you still won't have high-level spells. This applies to a lesser degree to psionic powers as well - augmentation sometimes boosts a low-level power to the equivalent of a higher-level spell, but in most cases that's a matter of expanding the things you can use the power on (e.g. augmenting psionic dominate to affect non-humanoids), not making the effect itself a higher-level effect.

For example, let's say I'm a wizard 1/fighter 4, and I take the Practiced Spellcaster feat. I can now cast magic missile for 3d4+3, but I still can't cast hold person.
Or, let's say I'm a psion 1/fighter 4 with a "Practiced Psionic" feat that does the same as Practiced Spellcaster. I can now manifest crystal shard for 5d6 damage (assuming I have the PP), but I still can't manifest brain lock.
However, now I'm a mage 1/fighter 4 with a feat that lets me pump in 4 MP more in a spell. Not only can I use Evoke Force to do 5d6 damage, I can also use Charm Humanoid to Hold up to 13 HD (if I understand things correctly).

That's not something a 1st level psion or wizard could do, even with a caster/manifester level of 5. So, a +4 bonus might not work even if limited to HD.