Emulating exploration without the hexcrawl

[Henry]

[MENTION=158]Henry[/MENTION]
How much real world time do you want this travel to take up, a couple minutes, an hour, one session every now and then?

Also how random do you want these encounters to be? For example, would a bunch of tables called "random terrain features of the natural world" meet your needs? Or would you like something tightly crafted around the story and mythos of the Jade Regent AP?

Ideally, about 45 min to an hour per session - more than 25% and it will cut into my group's roleplay or combat time too much. It's funny, but of those three "pillars," exploration get ignored most in Paizo's APs (Kingmaker notwithstanding).

...the Marco Polo reference makes me think that the key elements are:

(1) Keeping the caravan safe
(2) Trailblazing

In other words: Marco Polo had a rough idea of where he was going, but he didn't have a precise set of travel plans.

As [MENTION=467]Reynard[/MENTION] says, Jade Regent is more linear than that, but my purpose is to figure out what kinds of tricks I can use to invoke the feel of "hexcrawl" and "figure out the best path. I like your suggestions on it, as well as the skill challenge suggestions -- my clip-card idea feels a little too gimmicky for it.

Simple answer: Pre-roll/Pre-determine a lot of stuff--as much stuff as you can.

This way, you're exactly prepared for the upcoming scenario, and it moves smooth as glass.

I think the best way may be to bust out big maps of the area, have a lot of canned description waiting based on terrain, and a couple of either non-combat or "combat-esque" two or three roll encounters like what [MENTION=607]Klaus[/MENTION] said.

And before I forget, big thanks to all the suggestions so far. The more idea-tossing, the better it coalesces in my head what I want to do.

EDIT: And for anyone interested, I was just reminded of a thread I saw last year about this -- I even commented on it! -- on Paizo's site:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboard...r/adventurePath/jadeRegent/extraCaravanEvents

As an idea of a way to inject some of this -- though they're more specific to the caravan, than the environment.

 

[Nytmare]

In the last campaign I ran, what I would do for large chunks o travel between story bits was to treat the entire trip as an extended, Obsidian skill challenge.

 

[Desdichado]

I don't know if this helps or not, but the best idea I've heard about wilderness exploration is to treat each distinct area as a dungeon "room".

It's always curious to me why D&D players are always so anxious to reduce everything to some form of dungeon.

Honestly, I'm not even sure I understand Henry's problem exactly. How many movies do you watch that struggle representing travel without hexcrawling? How many books? How many television shows? How many non-D&D RPGs?

It seems like a very artificial problem that's--in fact--brought on by being unable to see the game outside of the structure of a dungeon in the first place. Offering the cause of the problem as the solution seems pretty counter-intuitive. I'm not sure exactly how it will help, either.

I'd say rather to treat it the way you would in a show, book, movie or other adventure that features some travel. Do a montage. Describe some things that happen on the way briefly. Stop the montage from time to time to have something "significant" happen to the players. Come up with some possible encounter ideas and throw them in the montage. Use some skill challenges to represent survival on the North Pole environment. Use skill challenges to find your way; describe some scenic features and make them roll to recognize them, or to follow the map and course correctly without getting lost, have them wander through some weird terrain, or across some weird yeti raiders, or something. Break up the exploration with skill checks and encounters, and make a quick and dirty hand-drawn map as they go of stuff that they've seen and passed on the way.

But mostly, if you don't know what to do for an extended travel sequence, then don't. Skip over it, except in the vaguest sense. Do a Raiders of the Lost Ark red line across the map. In real life, travel mostly is kinda dull. I know not many folks do road trips these days, but even in "ye olde days" travel was mostly plodding along, putting one foot in front of another day after day.

 

[Quickleaf]

Ideally, about 45 min to an hour per session - more than 25% and it will cut into my group's roleplay or combat time too much. It's funny, but of those three "pillars," exploration get ignored most in Paizo's APs (Kingmaker notwithstanding).

45 minutes is about the length of one encounter or scene for your group I take it? So this really might be some form of "random encounter" table that you're looking for? Or do you prefer a mini-game approach?

What kind of terrain are they traveling thru in in the AP? Is it a consistent type or does it vary? Is there a continous threat of some kind (eg. occupied enemy territory)?

I ask all these questions cause I've done this (in 4e) in a variety of ways, and I'm trying to translate to your scenario (and PF).

 

[Henry]

I'd say rather to treat it the way you would in a show, book, movie or other adventure that features some travel. Do a montage. Describe some things that happen on the way briefly. Stop the montage from time to time to have something "significant" happen to the players. Come up with some possible encounter ideas and throw them in the montage. Use some skill challenges to represent survival on the North Pole environment. Use skill challenges to find your way; describe some scenic features and make them roll to recognize them, or to follow the map and course correctly without getting lost, have them wander through some weird terrain, or across some weird yeti raiders, or something. Break up the exploration with skill checks and encounters, and make a quick and dirty hand-drawn map as they go of stuff that they've seen and passed on the way.

But mostly, if you don't know what to do for an extended travel sequence, then don't. Skip over it, except in the vaguest sense. Do a Raiders of the Lost Ark red line across the map. In real life, travel mostly is kinda dull. I know not many folks do road trips these days, but even in "ye olde days" travel was mostly plodding along, putting one foot in front of another day after day.

I could "montage" it, but frankly, that's kind of boring, like you say. That's the more linear way, and cinematic way, to handle it, and I was looking for emulating the older "hexcrawl" ideal without it taking all that time, because even though it takes more time, players charting their own course instead of the DM saying, "your trip goes from point A to Point B to point C", is fun in itself. And yes, road trips are one of my favorite types of vacations.

Skill challenges or pseudo-skill challenges are what I might wind up resorting to, replacing combat encounters and leaving possible combats for the big core encounters.

 

[Rogue Agent]

It's always curious to me why D&D players are always so anxious to reduce everything to some form of dungeon.

Because traditional dungeons -- like hexcrawls and mysteries -- provide a clear structure that pretty much all GMs are comfortable designing and running.

Without that structure, the GM is running blind. Without a clearly understood structure, it's difficult to prep material and it's difficult to run it. So when GMs go looking for a new structure, they'll often fall back on the structures they understand best and try to bash 'em around a bit until they offer a semi-workable solution.

I'd say rather to treat it the way you would in a show, book, movie or other adventure that features some travel. Do a montage. Describe some things that happen on the way briefly.

And this kind of linear railroad is usually what you end up when the GM doesn't have a structure for organizing and running a certain type of material. (Because, it too, is a familiar structure that most GMs are comfortable designing and running.)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Semi related note, I am prepping for a session in which the PCs have to get from point A to point B. In this case its only about 10 miles and they will be able to make out their destination from their starting point.

What I have decided to do, partially based on this thread, is map out on a hex sheet the area and then use 'Lethal Obsidian' skill challenges for each hour of travel. There will be a couple of different paths {mountains, plains, guarded road, river, overland flight} that the players can debate and chose from.. and even switch from one to the other if needed. Each path has its advantages and disadvantages, generally trading speed for danger {flying is fastest but alerts everyone ahead of them, the mountain is slowest and they can gain surprise easily}. Tension is sustained by having an event halfway through that changes their timeline.

I think in Henry's case he is looking more for "we are not sure where to go" style adventure that blunders into things occasionally on the way to Point B. Skill challenges can still work with a mix of social {research best route from locals} to physical {climb the cliffs of insanity} and occasional combat.

One of the keys, IMHO, of skill challenges is that they should not always result in combat.. but rather change the face of the future set-piece encounter. In my session, being late means the bad guys are on the move and more alert. Being early means the bad guys are breaking camp and occupied. It will be worth burning some healing surges on the way to be early.. but not too many as the fight is truely epic

 

[Janx]

I could "montage" it, but frankly, that's kind of boring, like you say. That's the more linear way, and cinematic way, to handle it, and I was looking for emulating the older "hexcrawl" ideal without it taking all that time, because even though it takes more time, players charting their own course instead of the DM saying, "your trip goes from point A to Point B to point C", is fun in itself. And yes, road trips are one of my favorite types of vacations.

Skill challenges or pseudo-skill challenges are what I might wind up resorting to, replacing combat encounters and leaving possible combats for the big core encounters.

On roadtrips, I guess it depends on what you consider a roadtrip. When I travel, I don't stop, except for gas. Every couple of years or so, I drive up to see my MN friends. That's 1500 miles in 20 hours in a car. We stop for gas and McD's at the gas station. We don't even sleep. While tales have been told of the silliness that happens from talking in a car for 20 hours, nothing interesting happens along the way.

In reading this, Hobo, and RA, I got some ideas. the montage approach is how you PRESENT travel that skips over the boring stuff.

Written directly by the GM, that can feel a bit railroady.

The traditional hexcrawl feels pokey, because it makes the players play hex by hex through the boring stuff.

I propose finding a middle ground.

When the players tell you their route/destination, look at the hex map and quickly work up the "boring" description that leads into the first interesting encounter. When they finish that, re-verify their route/destination from their current position, and repeat.

Basically, at the presentation layer, make it feel like a montage. But behind the scenes, go through the hex crawl.

Though Henry's a seasoned GM, I'll throw in this caution. Don't make the Forst of Too Many Encounters. It's a funny tale from my blog. My GM had a forest with a trail through it to point B. he'd rolled up zillions of encounters for every hex.

Then when he ran it, we walked directly from point A to point B, skipping the vast majority of his encounters. He basically wasted his prep-time making stuff he didn't need.

This is the other reason linear design and montages work. Because despite all the planning and possibilities of where the PCs COULD go on a hex map, when their goal is get to Point B, the number of choices that matter narrows down a lot. Unless you offer a fork in the road of obvious merit, it is no choice of interest to the players.

 

[Nellisir]

It's always curious to me why D&D players are always so anxious to reduce everything to some form of dungeon.

It's a useful way of organizing encounters & events. It prompts me to think of each wilderness areas as a single encounter/adventure/dungeon, with related foes, rather than a series of plotless random encounters with no purpose beyond false versimilitude and XP gathering. There can still be random encounters, but in the region around the Tower Ain (the Ainhildur?), encounters are more likely to be with servants and creatures in fealty to the Tower, and repeated encounters/provokations will escalate in severity and significance, and repeated sufficiently, culminating in a potentially campaign-altering with the rulers of the Tower.

Or, first they fight the little goblins, then the big goblins, then the boss goblin.

If each area has a theme or motif, typified by a controlling power/monster, it makes them distinct, memorable, and more engaging to the players.

A party passing quickly through might not fully engage the area (ie, the area is a "room" with a single encounter), or it might remain for multiple encounters (expanding the area into a dungeon).

 

[Desdichado]

Because traditional dungeons -- like hexcrawls and mysteries -- provide a clear structure that pretty much all GMs are comfortable designing and running.

Without that structure, the GM is running blind. Without a clearly understood structure, it's difficult to prep material and it's difficult to run it. So when GMs go looking for a new structure, they'll often fall back on the structures they understand best and try to bash 'em around a bit until they offer a semi-workable solution.

You're writing as if I'm not also a GM. Playing more off the cuff is a great Gm technique, not a situation to be avoided.

And this kind of linear railroad is usually what you end up when the GM doesn't have a structure for organizing and running a certain type of material. (Because, it too, is a familiar structure that most GMs are comfortable designing and running.)

There's no reason to assume that it's a "linear railroad."