Starfox
Hero
And I dont really like the idea of needing a style guide guide and glossary to talk about RPGs.
I'm quite happy with it as it is now, a quietly simmering conversation deep in the background.
And I dont really like the idea of needing a style guide guide and glossary to talk about RPGs.
The one that I find really irritating and indefensible is using "gamist" when they mean "gamey".
People do this because they've heard the word "gamist" used in its Forge context, without understanding what it means, and then they use it to mean something different because they think using a word with "ist" on the end instead of "ey" makes them sound smarter and gives their opinion more weight. It's pretentious and legitimately confusing.
I've been discussing board games lately over on BoardGameGeek and posters there use "gamey" to mean "the mechanism is too abstract or naked and causes me to lose a sense of identification with the game's theme" all the time. No one ever uses "gamist". Gamey is the natural word for this and should be used.
"Gamey" to me has always meant "smells like pheasant".
The one that I find really irritating and indefensible is using "gamist" when they mean "gamey".
People do this because they've heard the word "gamist" used in its Forge context, without understanding what it means, and then they use it to mean something different because they think using a word with "ist" on the end instead of "ey" makes them sound smarter and gives their opinion more weight. It's pretentious and legitimately confusing.
I've been discussing board games lately over on BoardGameGeek and posters there use "gamey" to mean "the mechanism is too abstract or naked and causes me to lose a sense of identification with the game's theme" all the time. No one ever uses "gamist". Gamey is the natural word for this and should be used.
As an example of how these terms differ in meaning (don't actually want to argue this here), I think D&D 4e is gamey and yet not very compelling for gamist play. I think AD&D is both less gamey and more gamist than 4e.
There's no need to read the Forge essays to participate in RPG discussion. But don't use the Forge terms unless you've read them. I don't think that's too much to ask.
"Gamey" to me has always meant "smells like pheasant"; I've never heard it in any other context, and don't have any immediate plans to start using it that way.
I don't think that anybody used gamist to mean what we would rather people call gamey prior to the Forge. Gamism was a term used in the GDS theory predating the Forge's GNS, but it means the same thing there as it does in GNS.Actually, I think that Forge hijacked the word gamist. When people intuitively use the word gamist, they seem to mean what you Libramarian (And I in the OP) call gamey. I suggested the new usage to avoid collision. In that way, I subordinated my suggested terms to Forge.
other option is to ignore Forge, use gamist for situations where the rules are naked, and use competitive or challenging for gamism in the Forge sense. Closer to intuitive language, really.
Eeek! So now folks have to learn the jargon of two external websites before they post here, not just one? I feel singularly unqualified to post on EN World now. "Gamey" to me has always meant "smells like pheasant"; I've never heard it in any other context, and don't have any immediate plans to start using it that way.
I use those words.Well what word do you use to describe game mechanics that feel intrusive, abstract, unthematic, naked, distractive, unimmersive, etc.?