endless false lifes?

[paranoid]

Inspired by the acid fog-stacking-thread, but I didn't want to hijack that, so here goes: do multiple castings of false life or other sources of temporary hitpoints overlap or "stack"? So Marge the Mage casts false life two times, the first one for 12 points, the second one for 16. What happens if she is hit for 30 points of damage?

1. she is dealt 18 points of damage, because the first casting of FL is relevant and absorbs 12 points.

2. she is dealt 14 points of damage, because the two castings of FL overlap and the highest amount of temp. HP counts, so the second FL absorbs 16 points.

3. she is dealt 2 points of damage, because the two FLs "stack" somehow.

Any suggestions?

paranoid.

 

[Darklone]

This was asked some weeks ago. I repeat:

Inspired by the acid fog-stacking-thread, but I didn't want to hijack that, so here goes: do multiple castings of false life or other sources of temporary hitpoints overlap or "stack"?

They overlap, e.g. the highest works only.

So Marge the Mage casts false life two times, the first one for 12 points, the second one for 16. What happens if she is hit for 30 points of damage?

1. she is dealt 18 points of damage, because the first casting of FL is relevant and absorbs 12 points.

2. she is dealt 14 points of damage, because the two castings of FL overlap and the highest amount of temp. HP counts, so the second FL absorbs 16 points.

2. is right. Note that the 12 points are also used up.

 

[paranoid]

This was asked some weeks ago. I repeat:
They overlap, e.g. the highest works only.

2. is right. Note that the 12 points are also used up.

Thanks Darklone, and sorry that I have to be insistent. Do you have any SRD/Sage reference for that or is that "just" board consensus? Don't understand me wrong: I am quite aware that "unlimited" false lifes are against the spirit of the rules and am also quite sure that there HAS to be a rule that forbids that, because there is always a rule for anything nowadays . I also don't ever want to abuse a potential loophole, I just like to have some hard, chunky evidence .

BTW, from which part of germany are you from?

paranoid.

 

[Darklone]

Thanks Darklone, and sorry that I have to be insistent. Do you have any SRD/Sage reference for that or is that "just" board consensus? Don't understand me wrong: I am quite aware that "unlimited" false lifes are against the spirit of the rules and am also quite sure that there HAS to be a rule that forbids that, because there is always a rule for anything nowadays . I also don't ever want to abuse a potential loophole, I just like to have some hard, chunky evidence .

BTW, from which part of germany are you from?

paranoid.

Let's see... I don't have my books here, but it should be in the section where temporary hitpoints are described.

I'm from South Germany.

SRD:
TEMPORARY HIT POINTS
Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away the character’s hit points drop to his current hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his current hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further.
When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.
Increases in Constitution Score and Current Hit Points: An increase in a character’s Constitution score, even a temporary one, can give her more hit points (an effective hit point increase), but these are not temporary hit points. They can be restored and they are not lost first as temporary hit points are.

Nothing in here. Perhaps it's better described in the book? Didn't find anything in the False Life or Vampiric Touch spell descriptions either. I'll look for the last thread.

 

[Darklone]

Hyps answer
No idea where that post went from the dude who bragged about his immortal Eldritch Knight with endless False lifes... Was it deleted?

 

[nsruf]

Can't give you a source either (no books, sorry), but IIRC this was already discussed under 3.0 (and may thus be part of Sage Advice) with the following results:

1. In general, temporary hp do stack.

2. A spell never stacks with itself (unless you count damage).

The latter is also mentioned in the spellcasting section of the PHB somewhere.

So you can't benefit from multiple false life, but may get added temporary hp from a distinct source.

 

[ForceUser]

Inspired by the acid fog-stacking-thread, but I didn't want to hijack that, so here goes: do multiple castings of false life or other sources of temporary hitpoints overlap or "stack"? So Marge the Mage casts false life two times, the first one for 12 points, the second one for 16. What happens if she is hit for 30 points of damage?

1. she is dealt 18 points of damage, because the first casting of FL is relevant and absorbs 12 points.

2. she is dealt 14 points of damage, because the two castings of FL overlap and the highest amount of temp. HP counts, so the second FL absorbs 16 points.

3. she is dealt 2 points of damage, because the two FLs "stack" somehow.

Any suggestions?

paranoid.

Temporary hit points from multiple sources do not stack. You take the better value.

 

[paranoid]

Thanks for your opinions. Also thanks to Darklone for the link; Mr. Hypersmurf has an interesting interpretation explaining these kind of effects. But still, you all have not convinced me that this problem is covered by some sort of rules. Sorry, but sometimes I'm bullheaded like a dwarf...
And sorry again if you have to fight these battles over and over again, but I didn't know this was addressed before.

As I pointed out in the Acid Fog stacking thread:

Spells or magical effects usually work as described, no matter how many other spells or magical effects happen to be operating in the same area or on the same recipient. Except in special cases, a spell does not affect the way another spell operates.
[...]
Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes
usually do not stack with themselves.

Temporary HPs are no bonus, as I understand it. If only the rules would allow more effects than just bonuses and penalties, the problem would be solved. So, reading the rules by the letter, I think that a potential munchkin would win that argument.

OT: quite a gathering of germans in this thread (i'm from westfalia)

greetings,
paranoid.

 

[Azoriel]

Can't give you a source either (no books, sorry), but IIRC this was already discussed under 3.0 (and may thus be part of Sage Advice) with the following results:

1. In general, temporary hp do stack.

2. A spell never stacks with itself (unless you count damage).

The latter is also mentioned in the spellcasting section of the PHB somewhere.

So you can't benefit from multiple false life, but may get added temporary hp from a distinct source.

Not to be rude, but your first point is actually inaccurate. The Sage did indeed rule on this, but it was to say that temporary hit points from different sources overlap and do not stack with each other. This question was asked due to a concern raised much earlier on WotC's psionics boards, regarding a person who claimed invincibility with psionic characters, based off of manifesting "a hundred" verves and vigors before entering combat. (Of course, this was a bunk claim to begin with, as, without some way of altering the 1 minute duration, it is impossible to have more than 10 verves running at once, but I digress...) The Sage deemed that temporary HPs/PPs from multiple blows of a bodyfeeder/mindfeeder weapon would indeed stack with each other, as they are derived from the same source (the weapon), but temporary HPs/PPs from multiple sources (two bodyfeeder/mindfeeder weapons) would only overlap, not stack. Similarly, temporary HPs/PPs from multiple castings of False Life would not stack either, but only grant the best result of all existing castings. This ruling is consistent with how "Protection from Elements" and other similar temporary effects work.

Instananeous damaging spells never "stack", as the magic of the spell creates a damaging effect, not the damage itself. The damage is merely a permanent side-effect of interacting with the spell, and not considered part of the spell for the purposes of stacking. (This is evidenced by the fact that this damage lingers after the instananeous duration of the spell has ended, and, barring some form healing or repair, continues to "linger" indefinitely, long after the spell has already ended.)

 

[Darklone]

I always applied the normal stacking rule to temporary hitpoints. There is no hint anywhere that temporary hitpoints would stack, therefore normal general rules such as the abovementioned stacking rules should apply, hence they don't stack.

The FAQ answer simply confirmed this interpretation.