enemies cheating?

[dark666105]

ok i noticed this here and there in the monster manual and a lot more in the ecology of the dragonborn thing dragon put out.
enemies dont come with items they should with.
the fullblade on the dragonborn commandant should be a +2 fullblade given that his melee basic attack gets a +13, thats +8 from str mod + 1/2 level and +3 from the fullblade's proficiency (cant imagine a weap with a +4 proficiency bonus) so that leaves a phantom +2 which i could only see being from the enhancement bonus on the blade. yet he doesnt drop a +2 fullblade.
also his dragonsbreath has an unexplained +2
he gets +12 which broken down is +2 from the heroic tier basic bonus to it, +8 cause he chose str for it and 1/2 level.
where is THAT +2 coming from, ok so some of it can be attributed to him being a leader. but then we turn to the dragonborn elementalist, who is a regular enemy.
his melee basic attack has a +12. +6 from str + 1/2 level, +2 from the quarterstaff proficiency bonus, and a phantom +4 which must be the enhancement bonus on the staff. now aside from him not dropping a +4 quarterstaff, the +4 quarterstaff is a lvl 16 weapon, 8 LEVELS ABOVE HIM, i can see 4, MAYBE 6 levels but a weapon 8 levels above a person is definitly overpowered.
also lets look at his dragonbreath, it gets a +11 bonus, +2 basic, since it can only be from str con or dex lets pick his highest str, so str + 1/2 level is +6 so that comes to +8, again we have a phantom +3 this time for a run of the mill non special enemy.
im all for them being stronger for having abilities and whatnot not available to players but could they at least make the math work out properly?

 

[Center-of-All]

The math does dwork out properly. You just can't deconstruct it into this bit from level, this bit from strength, this bit from a magic item, etc. They just have what they have, as described in their statblocks. You've been wasting your time.

 

[mhall67]

im all for them being stronger for having abilities and whatnot not available to players but could they at least make the math work out properly?

The math is part of that, too. The to hit and damage numbers as well as others are set based on the monsters level and intended challenge against the players. If that does not quite add up to how a PC would get the bonus, that's OK. So when you follow your exercise, you will find that many (most?) monsters will simply not add up, and that is OK based on how the system is supposed to work.

MH

 

[dark666105]

The math does dwork out properly. You just can't deconstruct it into this bit from level, this bit from strength, this bit from a magic item, etc. They just have what they have, as described in their statblocks. You've been wasting your time.

wow then all the monster templates and whatnot are totally screwed.

ok so all im getting from this is "because"

 

[baberg]

wow then all the monster templates and whatnot are totally screwed.

Actually, since they're playtested and balanced by the gameplay, I'd say they're totally not screwed.

 

[Kordeth]

wow then all the monster templates and whatnot are totally screwed.

ok so all im getting from this is "because"

Monsters do not follow the same rules as PCs. Monsters get their bonuses "just because" they are monsters of X level and Y role. The days of monster hit dice being treated like PC class levels and interacting with the derived stats the same way PCs do are over.

 

[dark666105]

ok so no one helped with this, i actually had to go to the DMG myself and find this, but its based on monster role. i am not going to quote the entire table so just look in the DMG on page 184.

 

[Lackhand]

If it helps, do you remember racial bonuses to skills?

That, but to every stat.

They didn't provide the breakdown because you don't need it; everything in the game that could reduce those numbers indirectly respects their opacity.

Feel free to derive the values for yourself, if you like

 

[Lackhand]

Indeed. Nobody helped because you didn't indicate what we should be helping with

Glad you found it! What'd you find (I'm at work, modulo my books)?

 

[fissionessence]

ok so no one helped with this, i actually had to go to the DMG myself and find this, but its based on monster role.

Actually, mhall67 and Kordeth both told you that the numbers were based on monster level/role, which is the same info you found in the DMG.

Be careful even with those numbers, though, because monsters don't always follow those guides either. Depending on the nature of the monster, it may have slightly higher or lower attacks and defenses in particular areas.

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