Essentials: Magic Item Rarity Explained, it's actually good!

[AllisterH]

The Ring in LotR was an unusual item - for DND - in that it's power was related directly to the power of it's owner at that time and it had a will of it's own.

It would be modeled better by being an Artifact I think.

The funny thing is that the Ring is perhaps the best example of a LEVEL limited item.

A 1st level character can use the ring to go invisible
A 30th level character can do ANYTHING with the ring

 

[Saeviomagy]

The funny thing is that the Ring is perhaps the best example of a LEVEL limited item.

A 1st level character can use the ring to go invisible
A 30th level character can do ANYTHING with the ring

I didn't think that was ever really detailed: I mean it's not like Isildur went around forging new forms of life or creating volcanos.

Hell, the ring could be as simple as:
property: The wearer of the ring gains invisibility
property: The bearer of the ring gains a one-ring bonus to intimidate, diplomacy and bluff equal to one-half his level
property: The bearer of the ring gains a one-ring bonus to intimidate, diplomacy, bluff and insight equal to his level against wearers of the other rings of power

 

[Grabuto138]

Finding this price too high, my character stands outside the merchant's shop with a sign saying "I buy +1 sword for 100 gp!". Since +1 swords are common and

This would then be a skill challenge and the additional money you make would be the treasure parcel you expect to receive for successfully completing an encounter.

The 20% assumes you are dumping the item for quick cash to the most convenient person with little or no haggling. Anything more is a roleplaying encounter or more properly a skill challenge.

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

If you play in a game where your DM is a stickler for inane rules like the 20% selling price rule, then you might be better off playing with another DM. Ours, makes it somewhat tricky / difficult to get the specialty items you want (this was even pre-Essentials rarity rules, it just made sense to him as a DM and we were all fine with it), but since we befriended some high level wizards and nobles, we can access a better re-sale value (especially as a reward for completing quests for said NPCs), and thus you could see the difference between 20-100% resale value as another, hidden level of gold reward for successfully completing a mission. It's all about who you know and how you talk to them.

Once, our rogues even managed to convince the thieves' guild PO to buy a crate of poison at a markup from the PHB price, by simply bluffing them. Of course, this is risky because a failure could mean immediate negative repertcussions, or at least expulsion or ostracization from that guild. It was nail-biting and fun at the same time, which to me is the point of Dnd. The players shouldn't get stuff handed to them on a silver plate, but neither should magic items disappear from the market for such items like a cash sink in an MMO bazaar. Those items should still exist and be locatable, by an enterprising thief who wants to pull the coin-slot trick by selling a rare item then stealing it back again. Lots of fun adventures can be had this way, by merely letting players do what is possible to do, and let the dice and common sense decide what's do-able.

In theory, you should be able to buy something that you could just steal, except at a huge price. The DM can always make the selling price of an item your party gold +1gp to keep it out of your hands. Why not steal a whole armory worth of stuff? Isn't that what rogues are supposed to do? You might have to lay low or try to fence it all in another kingdom or have assassins trailing you for many levels, but that's part of the fun. I really, really hate all this nonsense about not being able to buy items. Any given particular rare item might be hard to find / buy, but rare items cannot that different in price if their actual mechanical value isn't that much better. For instance, why would a merchant buy a lackluster rare item that he can't sell at that big a markup, when a common item gives him a 400% markup, as others have noticed?

Uncommon vs common is a different issue, and I really hope to not be spending endless hours arguing with these new rules that with access to the royal high court wizards and armory that it would be that difficult to trade, say, a Staff of the Storms +2 (worth 5000gp, and uncommon), for some Iron Armbands of Power. Upgrading the tier of these items should also be do-able as an exception. Like just pumping up the +1 to a +2. If a player can do a +1 to +2 upgrade with Enchant Magic item on a common item, he should be able to do it on an uncommon or rare too. Why not...the property hasn't changed, just the basic bonus.

That's an incredibly annoying nerf they just did for Enchant Magic item, right when we just got a ritual casting wizard join our group.

 

[Victim]

This change seems more like an excuse not to properly balance items. With tons of magic items across all the books, there are only a handful that appeal to a wide variety of characters. When you look at optimization threads, there are a few items that pop up over and over: Iron armbands, frost based keyword swaps, radiant swaps, Staff of Ruin.

And a lot of characters are better off with +X Frost (or whatever their desired item type) than X+1 anything else. Our group has had players pass up X+1 magic to keep X Staff of Ruin (which seemed poor to me, but whatever).

It seems like instead of making more items desirable (or diminishing the importance of specific items), the change will just make the preferred items harder to get. Especially for multiple characters.

 

[fuzzlewump]

In theory, you should be able to buy something that you could just steal, except at a huge price. The DM can always make the selling price of an item your party gold +1gp to keep it out of your hands. Why not steal a whole armory worth of stuff? Isn't that what rogues are supposed to do? You might have to lay low or try to fence it all in another kingdom or have assassins trailing you for many levels, but that's part of the fun. I really, really hate all this nonsense about not being able to buy items. Any given particular rare item might be hard to find / buy, but rare items cannot that different in price if their actual mechanical value isn't that much better. For instance, why would a merchant buy a lackluster rare item that he can't sell at that big a markup, when a common item gives him a 400% markup, as others have noticed?

Merchant's wouldn't buy rare items, I suspect. They would be taking a chance with uncommon items, but mostly would deal in common items. Rare items are too much trouble. They get nearly no profit, and they get targeted by thieves and evil doers once they catch wind that the merchant has the item. Uncommon items are essentially the same problem, but lessened. Still not worth taking the risk as a merchant, even if you're 'lucky' enough to come across an uncommon item.

The people buying and selling uncommon and rare items are fellow adventurers, powerful beings, etc... AKA, plot points. Sure, you can buy a rare item from the Underdark Circle of Thieves that they don't use for themselves, or try the coin-slot trick, but that's all part of an adventure. The idea is to make it fun and adventurous, whenever you can just say "I go to the store and buy this Uncommon or Rare item," it becomes mundane just as it has been for 3E and 4E out of the book.

And if that's not interesting, then the game proceeds with the rare or uncommon items coming from dungeons as normal. It's just a matter of defining your dungeon I guess. It's the Bazaar or it's the Orc Mines.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Merchant's wouldn't buy rare items, I suspect. They would be taking a chance with uncommon items, but mostly would deal in common items. Rare items are too much trouble. They get nearly no profit, and they get targeted by thieves and evil doers once they catch wind that the merchant has the item. Uncommon items are essentially the same problem, but lessened. Still not worth taking the risk as a merchant, even if you're 'lucky' enough to come across an uncommon item.

The people buying and selling uncommon and rare items are fellow adventurers, powerful beings, etc... AKA, plot points. Sure, you can buy a rare item from the Underdark Circle of Thieves that they don't use for themselves, or try the coin-slot trick, but that's all part of an adventure. The idea is to make it fun and adventurous, whenever you can just say "I go to the store and buy this Uncommon or Rare item," it becomes mundane just as it has been for 3E and 4E out of the book.

And if that's not interesting, then the game proceeds with the rare or uncommon items coming from dungeons as normal. It's just a matter of defining your dungeon I guess. It's the Bazaar or it's the Orc Mines.

See, this is a very good point. What you can sell an item for is really the price you can get for it WITH NO DANGER. It is the "I didn't have to take any risk" way. As soon as selling becomes an adventure, then the sale price can be anything because the DM now owes the players additional treasure.

Honestly, I've never had the least trouble with the 4e economy. Cash sales are so uncommon as to be virtually non-existent in my game. In fact I think there has never been one. ONCE an item was disenchanted, IIRC.