D&D 5E Essentials: More like 3.9e than 4.5e (link inside)

[UngainlyTitan]

Yup, but I won't ever get new classes using the old class structure.
Just like I won't ever get new monsters using the old stat block format.

For the latter that's okay, since I prefer the new stat block, for the former ... it remains to be seen.

I think you will get both and probably some other format thrown in as well.

I think we are beginning to see the real strength of exception based design here.

 

[PeelSeel2]

4th edition is an evolutionary game now with the compendium. They can tweak as they go along. The 4th edition in 2008 is going to be mostly different from the 4th edition in 2012, but where did it change? Very small increments along the way. It will all play nicely with each other, however.

If you are taking this strategy in game design, you had better have lower price points on products, which they are going to. Good times ahead for D&D.

See? Grognards (Bill & Mike) at the head of D&D is a good thing.

 

[Dice4Hire]

4th edition is an evolutionary game now with the compendium. They can tweak as they go along. The 4th edition in 2008 is going to be mostly different from the 4th edition in 2012, but where did it change? Very small increments along the way. It will all play nicely with each other, however.

If you are taking this strategy in game design, you had better have lower price points on products, which they are going to. Good times ahead for D&D.

See? Grognards (Bill & Mike) at the head of D&D is a good thing.

That is going to be annoying for the DDI people when/if they want to get off the bandwagon.

 

[Jack99]

Yup, but I won't ever get new classes using the old class structure.
Just like I won't ever get new monsters using the old stat block format.

For the latter that's okay, since I prefer the new stat block, for the former ... it remains to be seen.

It depends what they mean. It could also just be stuff as simple as "A-shaped" classes and only one locked stat for races. It doesn't have to mean that every class from here on out will look like a carbon copy of the Essentials classes.

That is going to be annoying for the DDI people when/if they want to get off the bandwagon.

By calling it a band-wagon, you are implying something negative. We do realize that you do not like it, but guess what - the vast majority of DDI-users are more than satisfied with it. Why on earth would people get off unless they aren't going to play 4e anymore. Too expensive? Stop paying every month and get a couple of updates a year. You can still use the CB and MB without a running subscription, so you are golden. And if you can't afford $20-30 per year playing D&D, well.. lets just say that most should be able to afford that

 

[UngainlyTitan]

That is going to be annoying for the DDI people when/if they want to get off the bandwagon.

Why?

 

[Primal]

Uhm, so they're rebuilding/restructuring the core classes? Because it doesn't look to me like a simplified version of cleric, e.g. regarding domain powers and automatic domain feats.

In the light of all the revisions and errata they've released this year (including the "updated" monster damage and the new direction with racial stat bonuses) it seems to me like a revised edition (4.5 or whatever you want to call it) than anything else. If the Essential books are supposed to be a different, simplified version of 4E (similar to Basic D&D), I wouldn't market them as 4E supplements; why mix different versions of the same powers -- or even different versions of the same classes? I wouldn't allow, say, an Essentials cleric in the same party with a core cleric.

I think it would be far, far better just to say "Look, guys, we have revised the game so much that it's time for 4.5". I don't know about you, but to me it seems like they're trying desperately keep from going back on their promise ("There won't be a 4.5") even if the game would actually benefit from a new set of revised and updated core rulebooks. I would definitely buy them, because one of the reasons I haven't bought any 4E books is that they're not including revisions or errata in new printings (and I'd hate to print out 100+ pages and start doing it manually).

 

[bouncyhead]

Starting in September and rolling out until the end of the year, the Dungeons & Dragons Essentials products consist of 10 key products that form the basis of the roleplaying game system going forward.

The word that springs to mind for me is 'reboot'. That might be a little strong but I'm getting the distinct feeling that WotC are reaching out to those D&Ders who didn't switch editions (or did switch and abandoned) with an opportunity to have another go at 4E with a clean slate.

This definitely strikes a chord with me. I tried and failed to get into 4E when it came out. Since then some developments in the game have got me more interested, but the fluid nature of the ruleset with DDI and additional core releases have become a barrier to having another go. There's just too much to catch up on, too many new books to buy (as well as rebuying the original core books - long since Ebayed).

I understand that this is all in DDI but that doesn't quite do it - you need a certain momentum in a group for these things and for our group that means new books. New shinyness.

And this:

If you’ve been away from the Dungeons & Dragons game for a while, these products provide a perfect way to get back into the game. Many of the things we did with the new designs was directly inspired by the comments and suggestions of past players and Dungeon Masters.

And this

...we also had to keep in mind that the classes needed to be accessible to new players and players returning to the game since the launch of the newest edition of the rules. As luck would have it, there were a number of areas where a design that could bring new players up to speed also matched the feedback for change we heard from a lot of established players.

And this

One of the genius strokes of the original Dungeons & Dragons game design was that it allowed players to find their own level of mastery. Playing a wizard presented different challenges and required more rules mastery than playing a fighter. We wanted to preserve and return to that aspect of the Dungeons & Dragons game in the Essentials products.

These two points also loomed large in player feedback. Some players missed the diversity of different character class structures. They felt that the current versions of the classes looked too much alike. Others liked the ability to focus on more complex or simple character classes, depending on their tastes. This was an area where the needs of beginning players and feedback from veterans neatly aligned. It was clear that we had to focus on it for the Essentials products.

Are as as near as I've ssen to a direct appeal to non-switchers, touching on those aspects (class diversity and system mastery) that flat-out appeal to some players but were (seemingly) deliberately excised from 'original' 4E.

All wrapped up in a product that also pitches at new-new players.

 

[Desdichado]

By calling it a band-wagon, you are implying something negative.

Since when did a band-wagon become a negative thing? It's just a thing, neither negative nor positive.

 

[BryonD]

That might be a little strong but I'm getting the distinct feeling that WotC are reaching out to those D&Ders who didn't switch editions (or did switch and abandoned) with an opportunity to have another go at 4E with a clean slate.

...

This definitely strikes a chord with me.

...

This is a very clever approach and one I shall follow with interest.

I hope you are correct. It certainly looks like positive change. And I'm watching and waiting.

There are other aspects of 4E that don't really work for me and have not yet been mentioned. And I'm really in a great place with my current game. So there is a long way to go and a lot of inertia to overcome.

Honestly, in order to make enough changes that it the kind of game I liked, they would have to make it stop being a game that a lot of their current fans do like. That wouldn't make any sense.

But, like I said, it looks like positive change. So I will keep watching. Best of luck to them.

 

[bouncyhead]

There are other aspects of 4E that don't really work for me and have not yet been mentioned.

Absolutely. But I didn't want to get into all of that.

Honestly, in order to make enough changes that it the kind of game I liked, they would have to make it stop being a game that a lot of their current fans do like.

That will be the ultimate test. They are trying to pull off a very tricky balancing act. In the end it may not be enough for me, but Essentials (and the language being used to launch/preview it) bears the hallmarks of considered market research and they must think it's worth it.