Everybody Cheats?

Gary Alan Fine's early survey of role-playing games found that everybody cheated. But the definition of what cheating is when it applies to role-playing games differs from other uses of the term. Does everyone really cheat in RPGs? Yes, Everybody Gary Alan Fine's work, Shared Fantasy, came to the following conclusion: Perhaps surprisingly, cheating in fantasy role-playing games is...

Gary Alan Fine's early survey of role-playing games found that everybody cheated. But the definition of what cheating is when it applies to role-playing games differs from other uses of the term. Does everyone really cheat in RPGs?

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Yes, Everybody​

Gary Alan Fine's work, Shared Fantasy, came to the following conclusion:
Perhaps surprisingly, cheating in fantasy role-playing games is extremely common--almost everyone cheats and this dishonesty is implicitly condoned in most situation. The large majority of interviewees admitted to cheating, and in the games I played, I cheated as well.
Fine makes it a point of clarify that cheating doesn't carry quite the same implications in role-playing as it does in other games:
Since FRP players are not competing against each other, but are cooperating, cheating does not have the same effect on the game balance. For example, a player who cheats in claiming that he has rolled a high number while his character is fighting a dragon or alien spaceship not only helps himself, but also his party, since any member of the party might be killed. Thus the players have little incentive to prevent this cheating.
The interesting thing about cheating is that if everyone cheats, parity is maintained among the group. But when cheating is rampant, any player who adheres slavishly to die-roll results has "bad luck" with the dice. Cheating takes place in a variety of ways involving dice (the variable component PCs can't control), such as saying the dice is cocked, illegible, someone bumped the table, it rolled off a book or dice tray, etc.

Why Cheat?​

One of the challenges with early D&D is that co-creator Gary Gygax's design used rarity to make things difficult. This form of design reasoned that the odds against certain die rolls justified making powerful character builds rare, and it all began with character creation.

Character creation was originally 3d6 for each attribute, full stop. With the advent of computers, players could automate this rolling process by rapidly randomizing thousands of characters until they got the combination of numbers they wanted. These numbers dictated the PC's class (paladins, for example, required a very strict set of high attributes). Psionics too, in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, required a specific set of attributes that made it possible to spontaneously manifest psionic powers. Later forms of character generation introduced character choice: 4d6 assigned to certain attributes, a point buy system, etc. But in the early incarnations of the game, it was in the player's interest, if she wanted to play a paladin or to play a psionic, to roll a lot -- or just cheat (using the dice pictured above).

Game masters have a phrase for cheating known as "fudging" a roll; the concept of fudging means the game master may ignore a roll for or against PCs if it doesn't fit the kind of game he's trying to create. PCs can be given extra chances to reroll, or the roll could be interpreted differently. This "fudging" happens in an ebb and flow as the GM determines the difficulty and if the die rolls support the narrative.

GM screens were used as a reference tool with relevant charts and to prevent players from seeing maps and notes. But they also helped make it easier for GMs to fudge rolls. A poll on RPG.net shows that over 90% of GMs fudged rolls behind the screen.

Cheating Is the Rule​

One of Fifth Edition's innovations was adopting a common form of cheating -- the reroll -- by creating advantage. PCs now have rules encouraging them to roll the dice twice, something they've been doing for decades with the right excuse.

When it comes to cheating, it seems like we've all been doing it. But given that we're all working together to have a good time, is it really cheating?
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Tony Vargas

Legend
I think I used a screen for one session in the past 30 years. Some 4e boxed set that I bought had a screen in it, and I tried it for one session to see what it was like.

It got in the way, and has never come out since.
4e was unusual for D&D (ooh, do I get an Understatement of the Year nomination), in that it played very well 'above board.' I could run 4e not just with dice rolled in the open, but with the monsters, their hp totals & current conditions, out in the open in front of me. One group I played 4e with tracked monster hps (OK, damage done to the monsters, admittedly not quite the same thing) with numbered chits, right on the battlemat. I could share the objective, consequences & DCs of a skill challenge, too, no issues.
For a long while I thought 4e ran 'best' that way, but since I started running 5e and dusted off the tools I'd always used to run AD&D back in the day, I've found myself applying the same techniques (fudging, concealing information, 'illusionism,' whatever you want to call "successfully running an AD&D campaign that didn't suck" back in the day) in my 4e campaign, with equally good results.
 
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Hussar

Legend
As far as "keeping the numbers secret" goes, in 5e, monster HP are standardized - well, that's been true since 3e. And, damage isn't random either - your monsters deal average damage. Granted, I think most groups randomize damage.

But, don't you tell your player's the save DC when they make a saving throw? I do. "The spell hits you, make a DC X Wisdom save to resist".

I've never understood the idea that DM's need to hide information. Get it out there. The players are smart enough that they're going to know the monster's AC after the second or third attack anyway, most of the time, so, why keep it a secret? Playing keep away with game stuff just slows the game down.
 

Aldarc

Legend
As far as "keeping the numbers secret" goes, in 5e, monster HP are standardized - well, that's been true since 3e. And, damage isn't random either - your monsters deal average damage. Granted, I think most groups randomize damage.

But, don't you tell your player's the save DC when they make a saving throw? I do. "The spell hits you, make a DC X Wisdom save to resist".

I've never understood the idea that DM's need to hide information. Get it out there. The players are smart enough that they're going to know the monster's AC after the second or third attack anyway, most of the time, so, why keep it a secret? Playing keep away with game stuff just slows the game down.
For the last few sessions of gameplay, I have tried using a method popularized by Hankerin Ferinale (aka Runehammer of Drunken and Dragons) where everything in an encounter space or "room" has a single DC for rolls (e.g., AC for monsters, DC for skill checks, saving throws, etc.), and I put a d20 with the DC-side-up in the middle of the table for players to see. It speeds things up considerably while also adding a lot of transparency.
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
As far as "keeping the numbers secret" goes, in 5e, monster HP are standardized - well, that's been true since 3e. And, damage isn't random either - your monsters deal average damage. Granted, I think most groups randomize damage.

But, don't you tell your player's the save DC when they make a saving throw? I do. "The spell hits you, make a DC X Wisdom save to resist".

I've never understood the idea that DM's need to hide information. Get it out there. The players are smart enough that they're going to know the monster's AC after the second or third attack anyway, most of the time, so, why keep it a secret? Playing keep away with game stuff just slows the game down.

A good rule of thumb to use at tables when your players have access to all the books is to state that the monster statistics in the manuals are guidelines and not facts. Two good things happen here.

1. You can fudge hit points freely at your leisure and kitbash the monsters as you see fit.
2. Rangers, Druids and those with knowledge abilities might actually know more about the local monsters than the average adventurer.

As far as players knowing what the AC is, yes. Once you declare a hit the player knows. But how resilient is that ogre? Harder to say. Add in an ability or two, then there's a challenge.. get back to town and you just figured out you met "Mal the Angry"

2 cents.
KB
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I've never understood the idea that DM's need to hide information. Get it out there. The players are smart enough that they're going to know the monster's AC after the second or third attack anyway, most of the time, so, why keep it a secret? Playing keep away with game stuff just slows the game down.
It goes way back. The DM wasn't just supposed to keep the map secret, because not getting lost and puzzling out where secret treasure vaults might be hidden was a major part of the challenge, and to keep die rolls, hps, etc hidden to keep the players guessing with their tactics, but also to keep knowledge of the rules, themselves, from the players, as much as possible, always staying ahead of them in terms of rules knowledge (system mastery, we might say today). The Gygaxian DM (like the Sith Master) keeps his players (apprentice) on the hook with the continuous promise of deeper secrets and greater power.
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
It goes way back. The DM wasn't just supposed to keep the map secret, because not getting lost and puzzling out where secret treasure vaults might be hidden was a major part of the challenge, and to keep die rolls, hps, etc hidden to keep the players guessing with their tactics, but also to keep knowledge of the rules, themselves, from the players, as much as possible, always staying ahead of them in terms of rules knowledge (system mastery, we might say today). The Gygaxian DM (like the Sith Master) keeps his players (apprentice) on the hook with the continuous promise of deeper secrets and greater power.

mmm. I remember not mapping a dungeon well and getting lost. That sucked, but it made for a great time.
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
For the last few sessions of gameplay, I have tried using a method popularized by Hankerin Ferinale (aka Runehammer of Drunken and Dragons) where everything in an encounter space or "room" has a single DC for rolls (e.g., AC for monsters, DC for skill checks, saving throws, etc.), and I put a d20 with the DC-side-up in the middle of the table for players to see. It speeds things up considerably while also adding a lot of transparency.

That's a pretty good idea from a speed perspective and abstraction. What happens with DC's above 20? ( I know, not likely for all things in a room)
 


Arilyn

Hero
Lol. One time we didn't map, and got lost in a crazy labyrinth, the DM just kept describing this endless series of 4-way intersections.
She finally got sick of us and drew it:

Yep, time honoured tradition, especially if you hate mapping. Look vague, wander about thoroughly lost, until GM takes pity....

Course that only works for GMs with a heart...:blush:
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
As far as "keeping the numbers secret" goes, in 5e, monster HP are standardized - well, that's been true since 3e. And, damage isn't random either - your monsters deal average damage. Granted, I think most groups randomize damage.

They are not standardized as far as hit points go. What 3e and later editions do, is give you an average hit point amount to use if you don't feel like rolling the hit points up individually, much the same way that you can choose the average hit points for your PC if you don't want to roll them. It allows DMs to be lazy about it if they wish(and I do it a lot).
 

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