Exclusive Adventures for DnDAL

[Ovinomancer1981]

Yes, Baldman is correct insofar as his events are concerned, but Baldman's objectives aren't the same as the objectives for the Adventurers League as a whole. That's not a criticism; it's totally appropriate for his concerns to be focused upon how to maximize value for the people attending his conventions. When that manifests in a form detrimental to the majority of AL players who are not attending the cons Baldman runs games at (which is what's really in question here), the "Does it make AL games at Gen Con cooler?" becomes a far less valuable question.



With the exception of Epics (which are limited by gameplay logistics) and one or two Expeditions a season (which are usually only delayed by a couple of weeks from their con premieres), all AL content is released to all players worldwide at the same time. We're already meeting the standard that you're saying is impossible to achieve; all I'm saying is "Let's maintain that philosophy as best we can."

If the core value proposition here is "We want to reward our overworked and under-compensated AL Admins.", then I'm totally on board. I just don't think adventure content exclusivity is a good way to do that.

I can't agree with this more.

Baldman Games should work to solve their problems, while the AL stuff should work on their own. Not saying that either do a bad job, but there are other ways to address these issues.

I fully understand that without Cons there would be no organised play to begin with, and I have no idea about the numbers but I imagine that worldwide there are more people playing in public places than there are on Cons in the US.

In this way this exclusivity will drive more people away, than gain. I mean we are the ones that need to explain that the players cannot play the same things other people can unless they spend thousands of dollars on travel and accomodations....

If the AL Admins are spread equally over the world however, I would probably change my view on this....

 

[skerritthegreen]

I would like people to consider the original four questions in their answers, as we are rapidly repeating the same misconceptions.

Baldman Games should work to solve their problems, while the AL stuff should work on their own. Not saying that either do a bad job, but there are other ways to address these issues.

I should point out (again) that this idea has zero to do with BMG other than we are doing a trial run of the concept at one of their conventions. I also plan to run my adventure at Conflagration in March in Milwaukee and CODcon in April in Chicago, as well as some stores (and possibly GaryCon in Madison). Just to be clear, none of those are associated with BMG.

In this way this exclusivity will drive more people away, than gain. I mean we are the ones that need to explain that the players cannot play the same things other people can unless they spend thousands of dollars on travel and accomodations....

Also please note that all players would get the opportunity to play these events as they would eventually be freely available like any adventure. It is just likely they would have a slightly longer embargo time than the 1-2 months most adventures currently have so that the author has some time to go to cons and run them.

If the AL Admins are spread equally over the world however, I would probably change my view on this....

We do have RCs and LCs around the world, so yes, assuming the idea works we might expand the program to them as well. This would be similar to the expansion of the Epic program that we have already implemented around the world.

 

[Pauper]

I should point out (again) that this idea has zero to do with BMG other than we are doing a trial run of the concept at one of their conventions. I also plan to run my adventure at Conflagration in March in Milwaukee and CODcon in April in Chicago, as well as some stores (and possibly GaryCon in Madison). Just to be clear, none of those are associated with BMG.

I wouldn't mind getting you in touch with the guy who's putting together the Adventurers League slate for Con of the North in the Twin Cities (Valentine's Day weekend 2016), if you think you might be available and the adventure ready by then.

Edit: PM response is fine.

--
Pauper

 

[Pauper]

We're already meeting the standard that you're saying is impossible to achieve; all I'm saying is "Let's maintain that philosophy as best we can."

Except you're missing that 'maintaining a philosophy' isn't the same as 'paying the bills'.

Example: Let's say AL wants to implement a more interactive way for players to report their adventure results so that more folks than just con-goers get to influence the direction of the campaign story. Admirable goal, right? So how do we do it?

LFR had a survey at the end of each adventure that could be filled out. Do we have people fill out a paper survey and mail it to someone? To whom? Who counts the survey results and makes sure they get to the admins? Do we just mail them to an admin? Who pays for postage -- the local groups? Won't someone in Australia feel left out by that, since international postage is higher cost than domestic US postage?

OK, let's do the survey on-line. Who hosts it? WotC? Who codes it? How do we get the coder access to WotC's servers to test the code? Who updates the code for each new adventure? Who pays the folks coding and updating the servers? Do they have to be volunteers? Would WotC even allow a volunteer access to their servers, or do they have a policy in place that requires anyone with server access to be a paid contractor, with an appropriate agreement in place as to what that contractor's responsibilities and privileges are?

If the core value proposition here is "We want to reward our overworked and under-compensated AL Admins.", then I'm totally on board. I just don't think adventure content exclusivity is a good way to do that.

Adventure content exclusivity isn't the path, it's part of the price -- you make the content exclusive for a limited time because more people will put money in for that than they will to just play the same adventure everyone else is currently playing for free.

I'm on board with doing something nice for the admins as well. But me typing "Skerrit is most bestest AL admin"** six times a day will get him a vente latte at Starbucks -- if I also wire him $7 after I finish. In that sense, Baldman's point is valid for all of Adventurers League, because no matter how cool an idea might be, if nobody's available to pay to make it happen (in whatever sense 'pay' means, such as people volunteering time, etc.), then all it will ever be is a cool idea.

** -- Even though he didn't let me bribe him into getting a cert at GameHoleCon. *sniff*

--
Pauper

 

[skerritthegreen]

vente latte at Starbucks

I prefer a chai tea latte with honey and cinnamon.

 

[CahPahkah]

Except you're missing that 'maintaining a philosophy' isn't the same as 'paying the bills'.

No, it's not. But "Paying for Admins to attend random cons." isn't a bill the AL needs to pay: it's something the Admins have decided to take on as a cost to the AL as a whole. That's totally fine -- it's their prerogative to make that decision, but it's also fair to call into question.

Adventure content exclusivity isn't the path, it's part of the price

I agree; I just don't think the AL as a community gets enough in exchange for paying it.


As a side note (with acknowledgement that you were obviously joking about the bribe), would you support a system whereby Admins could sell magic item certificates on eBay? $10 for a +1 Weapon...Holy Avenger to the highest bidder. Maybe, after two years, we could extend that program to RCs, LCs, and some DMs as a "thank you" for their service? After all, it might not be 'maintaining the philosophy of the Adventurers League', but we gotta pay those bills, right?

I hope-slash-assume the answer is "no", but I don't see a whole lot of difference between that and this.

 

[Scorpienne]

1) Is this a good/bad idea? Be specific. Be polite. Provide reasons.

Given that that this has been in discussion for a couple of years, and given that it's already a done deal for WF, why is the hoi polloi only being asked now what we want?

Having said that, I know most if not all of the Admins and have played many of the past modules they've written. I'm sure they'd be good. (If they have the time to write them.)

I think it's overall a good thing because it adds more voices to the shared song. There are a lot of pros and cons (most of which have been done to death here already), but I think it's more positive than negative.

2) How likely are you to invite an Admin who can bring this adventure to your event, assuming there is some cost? (Admins are basically volunteers and we are not being paid to even write this adventure. We are doing it to give out more content and because we want to give you value if you bring us out. That said, we can't afford to pay to fly all over the country to come to your con. None of us are wealthy.)

My husband and I run a fair few game days and small cons in the Atlanta area - and a few big ones. Even DragonCon isn't gonna pay a penny to fly you guys out to run games. They're just not. I could get you a badge, easy, but that's about it. No room, and certainly no flight. :-( Any con we're running on our lonesome would include a steak dinner and a badge, but that's about all we can do, and that would be out of our own pocket.

3) How likely does this make you want to come to a convention or store that has one of these adventures at their event?

Sure! I love exclusive stuff that helps out stores and cons.

4) Assuming we eventually retired the adventure and released it to the public, what is the right timeline for that? (Note its not tied to a season and writing them for free is not something we have tons of time for, so think in terms of multiples of years.)

A year. That's plenty of time for it to be exclusive.

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So CahPahkah, if this lead to something like the ability for DMs to do a MyRealms, would you be against that as well? (since not everyone could play them)

I am not in favor of allowing/creating a Myrealms setup for AL.
If it was done it would need to give out low exps, low gold and no magic items or consumables.

OMG BRING BACK MY REALMS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!

So, while yes, the rewards are barely worth it for a player, the kinds of players that eat this up aren't playing it for the phat loots. They're playing them because it's a ghost of a shadow of a remnant of the local-story system we had in LG. Love it or hate it, LG had some seriously driven local fans. This allows folks to tell some of our own stories.

Yes, your mileage may vary, A LOT, depending on the author. That's why con coordinators should be super mega careful about who they allow to run MyRealms adventures. If the adventures are terrible because your best friend and her little brother wrote them, then people aren't going to be coming back. Having said that there is a *heck of a lot* of quality writing talent out there that isn't contributing to the relatively small authorial pool in D&D Adventurer's League.

Paige

 

[Pauper]

I prefer a chai tea latte with honey and cinnamon.

Note to self -- up the wire transfer to $8.50.

--
Pauper

 

[Cascade]

OMG BRING BACK MY REALMS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!

Paige

MyRealms was very different than the LG regional content model.



1) I think its a good idea but does need oversight.

2) The group I support would consider this. We run 2 medium sized cons a year.

3) I already go to Gencon and Origins for the unique content. Now I'll be going to WF also based upon recent announcements.

4) 6 months (long enough to discourage waiting but not necessarily so far out of season with the story).

 

[Tia Nadiezja]

Reducing exclusivity, honestly, is something I like in general, so seeing Fai Chen and special promos show up at the game stores where the vast bulk of actual AL play happens would just utterly delight me. The idea of Epics showing up at more conventions is also delightful - I'm aware that the format for Epics basically mandates convention exclusivity (you're not going to get enough players for one on a standard day at a standard store), so having them show up at more conventions - and smaller conventions - is the best way to make them available to more players.

I love the idea of there being more content. I really, really love it. But once an adventure's written, shouldn't anyone be able to run it? There's four admins. Game stores run on a shoestring budget as-is. More content exclusive to those who can bring in the admins to run it seems to me like making the rich richer while the poor stay poor. The basic idea sounds lovely and good, but the implications leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Given how much I argue with the admins around here, what I'm going to say next might be a bit of a surprise: Admins should be paid. I have no idea how many hours Skerritt and the others pour into running AL, how much sweat and effort they spend on it, but I know it ain't small. Now it's being suggested that, in addition to all they already do, they also start designing content themselves. That's sounding like a full-time job at this point, or more than - I don't know how any of you manage to get any sleep or time with loved ones in on top of what you're doing for AL, and it honestly bugs me that you're asked to do it for free. Nothing but props for y'all.