Expert Tactician + Quicker Than The Eye

[MorganKiller]

How do this two feats combine (if they do...)?

Can you:
Make your opponent lose his Dex bonus (move equivalent) and then sneak attack him twice (one with your standard action and one with your free action from exp tactician)?

Single attack an opponent, use QTTE on another opponent and sneak attack him?



How do these two feats work if they are possessed by two different characters?

When the rogue lowers the target's defenses (QTTE), is it possible for an ally (with exp tactician) to attack the target when it has his Dex bonus denied?

Thanks

PS: of course you should substitute the words "target" and "opponent" with "player" for a far better result...

 

[Aaron L]

If you use Quicker Than the Eye, then you can indeed get a sneak attack and a second Expert Tactician attack, which is (edit)not(/edit) a sneak attack.

Yes to number B as well.

I would say that the Dex bonus loss is only for purposes of the Feat's activator. It'd be a bit silly if you dropped your guard to the guy with the greatsword just because someone drew a knife real sneaky like on you.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Correct Way:

1> Take Partial Action to attack (anyone).
2> Take MEA to Feint.
3> At the end of your action your opponent would be denied desterity bonus if you attacked them, so your bonus attack can be taken against your opponent.

Other Way:

1> Take MEA to Feint.
2> Take Partial Action to Attack (opponent is denied Dexterity Bonus)
3> At the end of your action your opponent would not be denied desterity bonus against you if you attacked them so they are not a legal target for your Expert Tactician Attack.

How do these two feats work if they are possessed by two different characters?

They don't.

When the rogue lowers the target's defenses (QTTE), is it possible for an ally (with exp tactician) to attack the target when it has his Dex bonus denied?

No.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

Correct Way:

An assertion which is, naturally, disputed...

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

Actually, the correct way, as confirmed by the S&S errata, is:
MEA - Feint
Free Action - ET Attack + SA
MEA - Feint
Free Action - ET Attack + SA

From S&S Errata
If you also have the Expert Tactician feat, you can make an immediate free attack against a foe who failed his Spot check against your Bluff......Because the attack you make by virtue of your Expert Tactician feat is a free action, you could attempt to use Quicker Than the Eye again....If the second bluff check succeeded, however, your opponent would once again not see you, and you could make another free attack by virtue of your Expert Tactician feat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, the correct way, as confirmed by the S&S errata, is:
MEA - Feint
Free Action - ET Attack + SA
MEA - Feint
Free Action - ET Attack + SA

The S&S FAQ answer is wrong in so many ways.

For a start, it says you can take the extra attack before or after your regular action. Taking an extra attack halfway through your regular action, as cited in the example, is not possible.

My theory has always been that whoever wrote that FAQ answer didn't have the books in front of him at the time, and was going from his memory of what he thought the feat text might have been.

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

My theory has always been that whoever wrote that FAQ answer didn't have the books in front of him at the time, and was going from his memory of what he thought the feat text might have been.

That's as good a theory as any - the FAQ entry doesn't resemble the actual text in any meaningful way.

-Frank

 

[Norfleet]

The S&S FAQ answer is wrong in so many ways.

For a start, it says you can take the extra attack before or after your regular action. Taking an extra attack halfway through your regular action, as cited in the example, is not possible.

That greatly varies depending on how one defines "regular action". If a single action is considered a "regular action", then the MEA Feint is a "regular action", and you thus take your ET Attack after that regular action. Thus, errata interpretation is correct.

If, on the other hand, you see "regular action" as "after your turn is finished", then your interpretation is correct.

Either interpretation could potentially be valid, as the term "regular action" isn't well-defined anywhere. However, there is little or no solid contradictory evidence, and the official errata supports the former interpretation explicitly. Therefore, regardless of your personal view of the matter, that seems to be the "correct" version. The fact that the errata specifically covered this EXACT corner case suggests that the two feats were, in fact, intended to operate together in this manner.

Of course, ET and QTTE are all entirely 3.0E feats, and therefore, you can apply them however you wish, if at all, in 3.5, until WotC republishes their official conversions. Feint was obviously already deemed overpowered, as the 3.5 rules increased the difficulty of performing the move to "unlikely" due to the fact that BAB now applies as a modifier in addition to Sense Motive: As BAB of a warrior class grows at the same rate as skills do, 1/lvl, this means that a Bluff check is unlikely to succeed in any case. Against even a nonwarrior who *DOES* have sense motive, BAB + Sense Motive will quickly raise the opposing check to levels which throw Bluff into the "impossible" range. Even if you use the former interpretation, and apply it to 3.5E, the rogue is going to spend a lot of time doing absolutely nothing as his bluff outright fails, granting neither normal sneak attack nor ET attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If, on the other hand, you see "regular action" as "after your turn is finished", then your interpretation is correct.

The extra partial action from 3E Haste occurs "before or after your regular action". This has always meant "before your regular turn starts or after it finishes", not "before or after any action you might take during your turn".

Otherwise I could, with 3E Haste and Spring Attack, move 10 feet, attack once, call the opponent a name as a free action - and then, after my "regular action", namely the free action of calling the opponent a name, use my Haste Partial to make a second attack - before completing my Spring Attack by moving away 20 feet.

It has been explicitly stated that you cannot take your Haste Partial in the middle of your turn in this way. So "before or after your regular action" is a defined term in 3E - outside the span of the turn you would be allowed were you not hasted.

Since the same wording is used in Expert Tactician, the same definition applies, and the Song and Silence FAQ doesn't know what it's talking about.

-Hyp.