Fighter Subclass: The Bravura! (INT-based, tactical, non-magical)

[mellored]

I'm not sure I follow that. Why wouldn't the warlord reduce damage to the Paladin, block the kobold going for the wizard, and maybe keep the last action for a later contingency?

Why would you have to remember what you were doing several turns later? Don't you get to choose a contingency when you take your reaction? Its unlikely that a bravura is going to be able to give up more than three attacks, so remembering how many you have available, and keeping count as you use them doesn't seem like it would be an issue.

I was comparing the failures of my previous attempt (lose attack now and get bonus later), and how Elfcrushers idea (get bonus now and lose attack later) solves those issues.

And even if you chose your reaction later (which solves one issue), you could still end up spending an entire turn sitting there doing nothing and have to balance around players skills.

 

[mellored]

Contingency names and suggestions.

Confirmed that the free-hand idea is has an actual choice impact. No extra rules necessary.
@JeremyECrawford
You get a free interaction with an object during either your move or your action (PH, 190). You choose which.
(i.e. not your reactions)


Press the Attack
When an ally makes a weapon attack against an enemy within 5’ of you, as a reaction you can let the ally make an additional attack against the target as a bonus action.
If you have 1 hand free, and their attack hits, it deals an extra 1d6 damage.
If you have 2 hands freee, and their attack hits, it deals an extra 1d12 damage.

Counter Arrow
When an enemy makes an ranged attack or casts ranged spell against an creature within 30' of you, and you are wielding a ranged weapon, you can use your reaction to shoot the attack out of the air.
Reduce the attack's damage by 1d8. If this reduces the damage to 0, the attack misses.

Explosive Dive
When you are targed by Area of Effect, you can move up to half your speed, potentially escaping the zone. You are prone after this movement.
If you have 1 hand free, you can move 1 willing creature you can reach with you. They are also prone after this movement.
If you have 2 hands free, you can move 2 willing creatures you can reach with you. They are also prone after this movement.

First Aid:
When an ally takes damage, and you have a healing kit and a free hand, you quickly run over and slap on a bandage before their insides become outsides. They can spend half their maximum hit dice (or any remaining if they have less than half), and immediately regain those hit points. If the target was reduced to 0 HP, they do not fall down.
If you have 2 free hands, you can maximize the hit die roll.

Adjust Movement
When an creature within 5' moves, you either give them a friendly shove to increase their movement by 5', or hamper them to reduce their movement by 5'.
If you have 1 hand free, increase it to 10'
If you have 2 hands free, increase it to 15'.

Reposition
When a creature within 10’ moves, as a reaction you may also move, up to your normal Movement rate. The distance you move is deducted from your movement on your next turn.
If you have 1 hand free, increase the triggering range to 20'
If you have 2 hands free, increase the triggering range to 30'.

Bait and Switch
When an enemy makes an Attack of Opportunity against you, as a reaction you may lure that enemy into overextending itself. It provokes an oppertunity attack form each other creature within 5' of it except you.
If you have 2 hands freee, your allies attacks have advantage.

Bolster Resolve
When an ally within 10’ fails a Wisdom Saving Throw, as a reaction you can allow them to re-roll it. You must be able to speak and the ally must be able to hear you.
If you have 1 hand free, increase the triggering range to 20'
If you have 2 hands free, increase the triggering range to 30'.

Adjust Reaction
When a creature within 5’ is the target of a spell that requires a Dexterity Saving Throw, you may use your reaction to either grant Advantage or impose Disadvantage on the saving throw.

Skirmish
When an ally provokes an Attack of Opportunity from an enemy within 5’, use you reaction to prevent the attack.
If you have 1 hand free, increase the triggering range to 10'
If you have 2 hands free, increase the triggering range to 15'.



When you are the target of a weapon or spell attack from an enemy within 5’, you may use a reaction to impose Disadvantage on the attack.
Protection fighting style is already a thing.

When an ally makes a weapon attack against an enemy within 5’ of you, as a reaction you can take the Help action, giving that ally Advantage on the attack.
IMO, everyone should get help-as-reaction, that works for both skills and attacks. It's generic enough so players will always have at least 1 option even if they picked all bad contingencies.


And trading out contingencies is 1/level.

 

[Hussar]

/snip









I will agree with mellored on one point: I want to minimize the extent to which the effectiveness of this class is dependent upon the player's ability to make predictions.

But, the ability to make predictions is what tactics is all about. That's the whole point of playing a tactical character. Why reduce the extent of predictability?

Additionally, if I'm simply trading attacks 1:1, such as the above "when an ally attacks, he gets a second attack" then there's no point to the power. Unless that other PC's attack does significantly more damage than my own attack. After all, what's the point of you doing a d8+4 damage when I can do d8+4 damage. Again, there's a reason that Commander's Strike gives bonuses to damage. And, what's the point about having a hand free? Umm, what? What difference does it make how many hands I have free? Just give a straight up bonus.

I mean, as written, I'm best off when I'm unarmed? Seriously? Hrm, let's have a fighter chassis but make sure that he's not actually using weapons.

And, note, this character class still isn't as good as a simple Battlemaster. After all, the BM can do pretty much everything on this list, only better and doesn't have to give up weapons or armor to do it. I don't know how effective you think action granting is, but, forcing a fighter to wear medium armor, then stripping away either weapons or shield is a HUGE penalty for very, very little carrot.

Double the damage bonuses and then we'll talk.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Contingency names and suggestions.

Although I love the name "Contingency" I'm rethinking whether a new piece of terminology is really needed. The section could be titled "Contingencies" but my inclination is that they should just be called "reactions".

Confirmed that the free-hand idea is has an actual choice impact. No extra rules necessary.
@JeremyECrawford
You get a free interaction with an object during either your move or your action (PH, 190). You choose which.
(i.e. not your reactions)

I get the free-hands idea but I would want the rule to be something that could either be summarized in a single place, rather than enumerated in each reaction, OR that different reactions have different requirements. E.g. "Press the Attack (requires 1 Free Hand)" etc.

Counter Arrow
When an enemy makes an ranged attack or casts ranged spell against an creature within 30' of you, and you are wielding a ranged weapon, you can use your reaction to shoot the attack out of the air.
Reduce the attack's damage by 1d8. If this reduces the damage to 0, the attack misses.

Love it. As over-the-top cinematic as it is, at least its sort of like the existing Monk ability.

Explosive Dive
When you are targed by Area of Effect, you can move up to half your speed, potentially escaping the zone. You are prone after this movement.

Good one. I don't know if you meant to evoke movie action heroes diving in slow motion as the fireball expands behind them, but that's what I read.

Adjust Reaction
When a creature within 5’ is the target of a spell that requires a Dexterity Saving Throw, you may use your reaction to either grant Advantage or impose Disadvantage on the saving throw.

I'd call this one "Timely Shove" or something like that, as that's what I was imagining.

When you are the target of a weapon or spell attack from an enemy within 5’, you may use a reaction to impose Disadvantage on the attack.
Protection fighting style is already a thing.

Protection is only for attacks against other people. This is for attacks against you.

When an ally makes a weapon attack against an enemy within 5’ of you, as a reaction you can take the Help action, giving that ally Advantage on the attack.
IMO, everyone should get help-as-reaction, that works for both skills and attacks. It's generic enough so players will always have at least 1 option even if they picked all bad contingencies.

As in, "You get this reaction, plus pick X more"? I could be on board with that.

 

[Guest 6801328]

But, the ability to make predictions is what tactics is all about. That's the whole point of playing a tactical character. Why reduce the extent of predictability?

Well, sure...and this is D&D 5e, not a military simulation. If you're trying predict a round ahead, and failing to do so well severely limits your effectiveness, we've got a class design that is an order of magnitude more challenging to play than any other class out there. Again, I don't think that's appropriate for 5e.

The idea is that the character is great at predicting events, just like the Wizard character is great at casting spells. The mechanics merely simulate this, without expecting the player to have the same level of skill. Responding to events in other people's turns, and deciding whether to spend a reaction or hold it, is still way more tactical than anything else in 5e.

And also way more tactical than the standard wish list for Warlord. Why is the bar suddenly so much higher?

Additionally, if I'm simply trading attacks 1:1, such as the above "when an ally attacks, he gets a second attack" then there's no point to the power. Unless that other PC's attack does significantly more damage than my own attack.

Because this design has several major...perhaps too major...advantages over doing damage on your turn:
1) Besides letting people who do more damage than you make the attack, you are doing so before your turn, which may mean before the turn of the enemy. Potentially killing enemies before they get to take a turn, rather than after they attack, is big.
2) Intervening to prevent enemy attacks, or help allies with saving throws, instead of responding after it has happened, is also a pretty big deal.
3) If none of those things occur, you still get to make your regular attacks on your turn, which number up to 4.

After all, what's the point of you doing a d8+4 damage when I can do d8+4 damage.

First, because it would just be really fun to play with tons of reactions.

And also, again, because maybe I'm doing it before the enemies turn, and you would do it after. And maybe I get Sneak Attack, or just do more damage in general.

Double the damage bonuses and then we'll talk.

I honestly find it surprising that you're so interested in 'tactics' and yet you put so much emphasis on damage output.

This design isn't about simply maximizing damage output, it's about having fun with a whole different set of mechanics. The particulars can always be tweaked to tune the effectiveness.

If you become interested again I'd love to have your ideas/suggestions/concerns.

 

[mellored]

Although I love the name "Contingency" I'm rethinking whether a new piece of terminology is really needed. The section could be titled "Contingencies" but my inclination is that they should just be called "reactions".

Hmmm..
... Yea, ok. That works.

I get the free-hands idea but I would want the rule to be something that could either be summarized in a single place, rather than enumerated in each reaction, OR that different reactions have different requirements. E.g. "Press the Attack (requires 1 Free Hand)" etc.

If you set differnt abilities to have different hand requiremsnt, you effectivly make 3 different sub-classes.
i.e.
You wouldn't run around sword and board and take a free-hand ability.
Though, I agree my setup is a bit unwieldly... So...

Just a blanket "Contingenices require 1 free hand"?

Good one. I don't know if you meant to evoke movie action heroes diving in slow motion as the fireball expands behind them, but that's what I read.

That's what I was going for.

I couldn't think of a good one for "Cool guys don't look at explosions".

"Timely Shove"

Better.

Protection is only for attacks against other people. This is for attacks against you.

Fair.

 

[Guest 6801328]

If you set differnt abilities to have different hand requiremsnt, you effectivly make 3 different sub-classes.
i.e.
You wouldn't run around sword and board and take a free-hand ability.
Though, I agree my setup is a bit unwieldly... So...

Ah...I see. I was imagining that Bravuras could switch up weapons during their turn, even if they had no Actions left.

Remind me again what is gained by making them choose how many hands free? Is it simply to give them a sliding scale between their own damage and the effectiveness of their reactions? It's starting to feel like a lot of complexity that isn't essential to the design.

 

[Guest 6801328]

And let's talk about Int. I'm wary of making the class too MAD; after all they will still be attacking with their own weapon, so will want Str or Dex. I guess Monks and Paladins already have two roughly equivalent stats.

As I explained earlier, I now think it's problematic to make the number of reactions you get a function of INT, because combining that with a number that increases with level is inelegant. (I mean, it could be INT, then INT + 1, then INT + 2, but that just feels sloppy.)

I do like the idea that the plan-making ability at level 10 somehow uses Int. E.g., "Everybody in the party gets to add your Int bonus to one ability check that directly contributes to the stated goal".

And the ability to help with Wisdom saving throws could first require an Int check against 10 + spell level. That feels flavorful to me. I could see one other reaction either requiring an Int check or granting an Int bonus.

Is that enough to make Int desirable but not mandatory?

 

[FrogReaver]

And let's talk about Int. I'm wary of making the class too MAD; after all they will still be attacking with their own weapon, so will want Str or Dex. I guess Monks and Paladins already have two roughly equivalent stats.

As I explained earlier, I now think it's problematic to make the number of reactions you get a function of INT, because combining that with a number that increases with level is inelegant. (I mean, it could be INT, then INT + 1, then INT + 2, but that just feels sloppy.)

I do like the idea that the plan-making ability at level 10 somehow uses Int. E.g., "Everybody in the party gets to add your Int bonus to one ability check that directly contributes to the stated goal".

And the ability to help with Wisdom saving throws could first require an Int check against 10 + spell level. That feels flavorful to me. I could see one other reaction either requiring an Int check or granting an Int bonus.

Is that enough to make Int desirable but not mandatory?

Consider dropping the INT bonus.
Possibly consider an INT requirement for the subclass if it's that important to you.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Consider dropping the INT bonus.
Possibly consider an INT requirement for the subclass if it's that important to you.

Honestly it's not to me. I'm trying to design something to please Warlord fans.* Maybe that's a bad reason.

On the other hand, it might seem strange for somebody with an excessively low Int to be spontaneously improvising amazing plans.

*Although I also think something like this would be super fun to play.