jarlaxlecq
First Post
Whats your fav build for a level 10 fighter/thief. Not a thug more like a sneaky finesse fighter. Use PrC as needed
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Fighter thief Build
- Thread starter jarlaxlecq
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jarlaxlecq said:
Dwarf Rogue 8 / Fighter 2.
Lots of Con (to withstand the damage) and Dex (to avoid the damage).
Details depend on what fits the campaign. Might consider finesse with a Handaxe just to be a little different. Set them up with Mithril Chain Shirt and a small shield or buckler. If the Fighter level was taken at level 10, you could even get Improved Critical with the Handaxe.
For a somewhat stranger build, go Halfing Rogue 8 / Barbarian 2. The Uncanny Dodge and Trap Sense stack, you get a little better movement, and a few more hit points. Probably still behind the Dwarf above (because of lower Con) but could still be a very interesting character.
In either case, you would be aiming to take sixteen levels of rogue by level 20, the other four being in a class with full BAB progression, allowing you to get four attacks per round.
FrankTrollman
First Post
I'm going to agree with Bret.
You're going to be paranoid about maximizing your BAB - and that means that you want to take a number of Rogue levels which is divisible by four.
For race, you are probably going to want something which gives stone cunning - because that is hands down the best ability that any race has ever had. It gives you a bonus action to Search - which is indescribably valuable now that buffing magic doesn't last very long. The obvious choices would be Dwarf (to take advantage of your Tumble skill and Heavy Armor Proficiency) or Deep Halfling (because they are just good at everything to a degree which is kind of embarassing).
This means that unless you qualify for a PrC with 2 levels of your combat class and 4 levels of Rogue - that you'll want to stay with Rogue for the whole 8 levels. Under no circumstances are you to entertain the idea of taking Duelist levels.
At 10th level, you can probably persuade the party wizard to make you improved invisible during most major combats. At that point, all of your short ranged ranged attacks are sneak attacks. That makes Ranger a very attractive 2 levels for your Combat class (which would also allow you to take Undead or Construct as your favored enemy, thereby somewhat making up for your inabaility to sneak attack them).
-Frank
You're going to be paranoid about maximizing your BAB - and that means that you want to take a number of Rogue levels which is divisible by four.
For race, you are probably going to want something which gives stone cunning - because that is hands down the best ability that any race has ever had. It gives you a bonus action to Search - which is indescribably valuable now that buffing magic doesn't last very long. The obvious choices would be Dwarf (to take advantage of your Tumble skill and Heavy Armor Proficiency) or Deep Halfling (because they are just good at everything to a degree which is kind of embarassing).
This means that unless you qualify for a PrC with 2 levels of your combat class and 4 levels of Rogue - that you'll want to stay with Rogue for the whole 8 levels. Under no circumstances are you to entertain the idea of taking Duelist levels.
At 10th level, you can probably persuade the party wizard to make you improved invisible during most major combats. At that point, all of your short ranged ranged attacks are sneak attacks. That makes Ranger a very attractive 2 levels for your Combat class (which would also allow you to take Undead or Construct as your favored enemy, thereby somewhat making up for your inabaility to sneak attack them).
-Frank
jgsugden
Legend
Half-orc barbarian 4 / rogue 6. Take rogue levels from there on.
Rogues get a heck of a lot out of the extra barbarian movement (especially with the new tumble rules). They also can benefit from a barbarian's rage ability (when sneak attacks are not available or when the hit points drop too low.) The extra hit points over a pure rogue (an extra 15 hit points on average if you take barbarian as your first level) are really nice. The barbarian skills are slightly better than fighter skills as well.
This build makes a good bounty hunter (with the tracking feat and points in survival from barbarian levels), a good melee rogue (you'll hit a lot better in melee than your typical rogue and make up for the some of the lost sneak attack damage with better weapons, higher half-orc strength and rage strength) or fine dungeon delver (there is no reason he can't be a fine trap finder).
As a final note: the sage did rule that you can rage and sneak attack at the same time (via attacking invisible or flanking).
Rogues get a heck of a lot out of the extra barbarian movement (especially with the new tumble rules). They also can benefit from a barbarian's rage ability (when sneak attacks are not available or when the hit points drop too low.) The extra hit points over a pure rogue (an extra 15 hit points on average if you take barbarian as your first level) are really nice. The barbarian skills are slightly better than fighter skills as well.
This build makes a good bounty hunter (with the tracking feat and points in survival from barbarian levels), a good melee rogue (you'll hit a lot better in melee than your typical rogue and make up for the some of the lost sneak attack damage with better weapons, higher half-orc strength and rage strength) or fine dungeon delver (there is no reason he can't be a fine trap finder).
As a final note: the sage did rule that you can rage and sneak attack at the same time (via attacking invisible or flanking).
FrankTrollman
First Post
Why take 4 levels of Barbarian?
The first two levels are golden, but the next two levels provide a point of Trap Sense (LAME) and an extra Rage per day.
If you take the feat "Extra Rage" you get two extra Rages per day. It seems like you could take any two levels of a Warrior PrC and pick up a feat that you would have otherwise taken, and some other ability, and then spend your freed up slot on Extra Rage and come out ahead.
And of course I am disdainful of Half Orcs. As a Rogue your signiture ability is skills, and your signiture skills (Search and Disable Device, the skills you get the ability to do things with that noone else can) are intelligence based.
Aside from not being very good just in general, Half Orcs hit you coming and going with the intelligence penalty. That and they don't get any good abilities, that hurts too.
-Frank
The first two levels are golden, but the next two levels provide a point of Trap Sense (LAME) and an extra Rage per day.
If you take the feat "Extra Rage" you get two extra Rages per day. It seems like you could take any two levels of a Warrior PrC and pick up a feat that you would have otherwise taken, and some other ability, and then spend your freed up slot on Extra Rage and come out ahead.
And of course I am disdainful of Half Orcs. As a Rogue your signiture ability is skills, and your signiture skills (Search and Disable Device, the skills you get the ability to do things with that noone else can) are intelligence based.
Aside from not being very good just in general, Half Orcs hit you coming and going with the intelligence penalty. That and they don't get any good abilities, that hurts too.
-Frank
jarlaxlecq said:
If you're willing to give up the finesse part, I think that a barbarian rogue combination could work out very well.
Sample Stats (32 point buy): Str:17, Dex:13, Con:12, Int:14, Wis:10, Cha:10.
I would probably aim for 11 barbarian/9 rogue in the end, so keep the classes fairly equal. Focus primarily on strength. Get Spring Attack and Power Attack, using a greatsword. Max out hide, tumble, move silently, etc. BAB at level 20 will be +17. Fort and reflex saves will be good.
I find the image of a theif hiding in the dark, then jumping out and smashing a guy with a huge sword before running away again (all on the same turn) quite entertaining. Definetally not thugish.
Thanee
First Post
A dwarven finesse fighter? Isn't that a contradiction in itself? 
Hehe. But dwarves are a very good race, that's for sure.
However, I'd rather try an elf or halfling and if you go for fighter it probably makes sense to make a fighter 4/rogue 6 using dual wielding with light weapons (kukri), which you can use weapon focus and specialization on. That extra damage really helps against uncrittable foes.
Another TWF option, if you want to get more rogue levels, would be a ranger 2/rogue 8 for a more nature-focused character.
Bye
Thanee
Hehe. But dwarves are a very good race, that's for sure.
However, I'd rather try an elf or halfling and if you go for fighter it probably makes sense to make a fighter 4/rogue 6 using dual wielding with light weapons (kukri
), which you can use weapon focus and specialization on. That extra damage really helps against uncrittable foes.Another TWF option, if you want to get more rogue levels, would be a ranger 2/rogue 8 for a more nature-focused character.
Bye
Thanee
Darklone
Registered User
My favorite build? KoK PG Brigand. Later multiclass into paladin. Who needs Prestige classes?
As for the standard stuff... Dwarf ftr4/rog6. Seen so many of them. And they rock. Sometimes more hitpoints than the normal fighters, tumbling in heavy armour, sneak attack damage goodness...
Who needs dex?
As for the standard stuff... Dwarf ftr4/rog6. Seen so many of them. And they rock. Sometimes more hitpoints than the normal fighters, tumbling in heavy armour, sneak attack damage goodness...
Who needs dex?
I kind of like Rog4/Ftr4/Duelist2. Race isn't a huge deal, because the two PC classes are equal in level, but I lean toward human for the bonus feat/skill points, or elf for the Dex. Feats (assuming human) are two-weapon fighting, two-weapon defense, dodge, mobility, expertise or improved two-weapon fighting, weapon finesse, weapon focus (rapier), weapon specialization (rapier). (Min Dex 15 and Int 13 or Dex 17 for this build.)
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