Fighters didn't matter after 11th level?

[Tectuktitlay]

Well, going back through this thread, I find:

Yes, it is a problem: 19

No, it is not a problem: 13

Other/unknown/both: 6

Majority says yes it was a problem, but hardly a 20-4 ratio.

Bullgrit

Add me to the "Yes, it is a problem."

A big problem. An extremely big problem, and in groups of full-blown optimizers TRYING to ACTIVELY abuse every class as best they can. The Clerics/Druids/Wizards could do everything all the other classes could do, and then some, usually combined.

I don't see much here about the enormously busted nature of magic item creation in 3E. Who memorizes Invisibility or Knock or Silence or whatever other utility or buff spell you need to (better-than) duplicate other classes at-will, when you can make a wand or a bunch of scrolls and have far more copies of those spells on tap than you will ever realistically need?

 

[Mort]

Add me to the "Yes, it is a problem."

A big problem. An extremely big problem, and in groups of full-blown optimizers TRYING to ACTIVELY abuse every class as best they can. The Clerics/Druids/Wizards could do everything all the other classes could do, and then some, usually combined.

I don't see much here about the enormously busted nature of magic item creation in 3E. Who memorizes Invisibility or Knock or Silence or whatever other utility or buff spell you need to (better-than) duplicate other classes at-will, when you can make a wand or a bunch of scrolls and have far more copies of those spells on tap than you will ever realistically need?

THIS.

Because scroll and wand creation is so ridiculously cheap and easy for a wizard, he rarely has to memorize spells such as, comprehend languages, knock, invisibility, scry, silence etc. etc. Wizards are free to memorize the spells they want and still have full access to spells that make other roles near meaningless.

Yes these scrolls cost gold and x.p. but not a lot. In the last campaign where I was a player I scribed tons and tons of utility scrolls and I never lagged a level behind. As a matter of fact 3.5 "fixed" this anyway as anyone lagging behind got more experience and caught up quickly.

 

[pawsplay]

Strangely, my group pretty consistently does not make scrolls or wands. I don't know why. They even have a wizard. What really puzzled me was when they repeatedly tried to take on an out-level dragon, and kept not scribing scrolls of prot energy or energy immunity.

 

[AllisterH]

Strangely, my group pretty consistently does not make scrolls or wands. I don't know why. They even have a wizard. What really puzzled me was when they repeatedly tried to take on an out-level dragon, and kept not scribing scrolls of prot energy or energy immunity.

That's honestly kind of weird pawsplay....

One of my main arguments behind my belief that the 3.x wizard is much more powerful than the earlier version IS due to the availability of cheap magic items like scrolls and wands....

Anyone remember the rigamarole one had to do to create even a potion in 1e/2e? We just didn't create magic items and thus all those scrolls and wands you found were hoarded as you couldn't afford to waste them....

Now? A wand of knock is so cheap that I cry for the rogues...

 

[Mort]

Strangely, my group pretty consistently does not make scrolls or wands. I don't know why. They even have a wizard. What really puzzled me was when they repeatedly tried to take on an out-level dragon, and kept not scribing scrolls of prot energy or energy immunity.

Realize that by not scribing scrolls (a feat the wizard gets absolutely free) or making wands (this at least has some opportunity cost) your wizard is essentially playing his class with one hand tied behind his back.

Yet without using one of the best features of the wizard class, I bet he still manages to easily pull his weight and keep up with the rest of the group. That alone should say something.