Fighting a black dragon...

[brehobit]

OK,
I just don't see how a black dragon can be beaten at lower levels. It seems that their ability to basically be impossible to see (the majority of the time at least) makes them darn hard to actually damage in any serious way. Melee types are hosed, and so are archers/warlocks yes?

Anyone fought against one in a game? How did the darkness go?

Mark

 

[DracoSuave]

Close and Area effects are fine. Use a few of those at it.

As well, if it's hard to see, stay away from its cloud of darkness. Then you're not so inconvenienced by it. It's a lurker, so you don't want to play on its terms.

 

[brehobit]

OK, but all it needs to do (once its power has recharged) is make it black where _you_ are and charge into the fight. As much of the party would be either completely ineffective (defenders) or largely ineffective (everyone other than controllers) I just don't see how you can win this fight. Plus it goes forever.

 

[FireLance]

I suppose a party that co-ordinates very well could send one PC (preferably a defender) into the darkness and have him move around until he either attracts an attack of opportunity or bumps into the dragon, deduce from that its location, and attack it, albeit at -5 for total concealment.

That may be asking too much of the average group of players, though.

I am seriously considering making two changes to the black dragon's cloud of darkness:

1. Instead of Sustain minor, it becomes Sustain save: the dragon makes a saving throw at the end of its turn and the power is sustained if the saving throw is successful. However, since even a young dragon is a solo monster and gets a +5 bonus to saving throws, and I think that a 20% chance of ending the effect each round is still too high, I think I'll apply a penalty to the sustain save. For a young dragon, I think a -3 penalty would be alright; this gives a 35% chance per round that the effect will end.

2. The dragon only gets to make recharge rolls for the power after it ends. This way, the PCs get at least one round to make attacks after the effect ends on the dragon's turn before it gets the chance to recharge the power again.

 

[James McMurray]

Thunderwave is your friend in this fight, as is anything else that could push or pull the dragon into the open.

 

[Scarface6174]

Thunderwave is your friend in this fight, as is anything else that could push or pull the dragon into the open.

As a matter of fact, Thunderwave was our friend in this fight. Even with the negative to hit cause I couldn't see it, when I did hit with thunderwave it was enough to push it out of it's own cloud for our striker and defender to hit it before it threw up it's cloud again.

 

[styker]

I think that the damage output of the dragfon is very low, so i cant see the problem with him. In my games im thinking to give him a sneak attack +1d6 at heroic, +2d6 at paragon and +3d6 at epic tier.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

I'd appreciate your thoughts on my Soul Eater - I based it on the Black Dragon. One of the big differences is that its cloud of darkness follows it around, but doesn't cause blindness, so it just has total concealment most of the time. One of its main attacks also causes a glow which negates the concealment, too, which I'm worried is a bit too lenient, but I thought without the ability to force or lure it out of the cloud it'd be too hard to get rid of the -5.

 

[Mirtek]

As a matter of fact, Thunderwave was our friend in this fight. Even with the negative to hit cause I couldn't see it, when I did hit with thunderwave it was enough to push it out of it's own cloud for our striker and defender to hit it before it threw up it's cloud again.

Since thunderwave is an area attack there shouldn't have been a penalty to hit. Bursts and blasts don't suffer penalties for concealment (PHB 281)

 

[Nahat Anoj]

As a matter of fact, Thunderwave was our friend in this fight. Even with the negative to hit cause I couldn't see it, when I did hit with thunderwave it was enough to push it out of it's own cloud for our striker and defender to hit it before it threw up it's cloud again.

Area attacks shouldn't take penalties for not having line of sight, as they don't need it. All they need is line of effect. You do need to guess which squares the dragon is in, but if you guess correctly you're attack won't have any penalty.

This is one situation where wizards are handy.