Level Up (A5E) Finding the Elusive Swordmage

[lichmaster]

Eventually, yes, though I'm not sure what form it'll take. January's OGL nightmare kind of imposed some time to stop and evaluate on me. The Thematic Toolkit line does okay, but not as well as MoAR for completely valid reasons. So I am contemplating other means to deliver on my goal of getting a full set of multiclass synergy feats out there (in other words, a fully generic set for every 2-class combination in the system). I have a massive outline for a project I'm probably going to call the Tome of Character Options. I may include at least some Thematic Toolkit content in there alongside the planned new stuff, but I'm not certain; I keep going back and forth on that.

Awesome, I absolutely love the idea of having multiclass feats for every possible combination of classes!
The Tome of Character Options would be an insta-buy or insta-pledge for me!

What I can tell you is that you won't see much cross-pollination between MoAR and the rest of my line. Because MoAR is a collaborative project, I want to leave material from there as much of its own thing as possible. I feel like that's the most fair thing I can do for my collaborators who are paid via a royalty share.

Good to know too. If there's little overlap each book will have its own merits.

 

[WanderingMystic]

I would love to have a hardcover version of the whole MoAR line to offer (heck, I'd love to have a copy for my own bookshelf!). However, that will require a bunch of conversations and new work with the various folks involved. I think it's safe to say that such a product will exist at some point, but I make absolutely zero promises about when.

Which is why you follow steampunkette and do it as a Kickstarter to raise the capital.

 

[Timespike]

Awesome, I absolutely love the idea of having multiclass feats for every possible combination of classes!
The Tome of Character Options would be an insta-buy or insta-pledge for me!

Just to clarify: the Tome of Character Options wouldn't have the full set of multiclass synergy feats; it'll probably be one of several products that, together, have all of that material. Multiclass synergy feat chainss are word-heavy, which means space-heavy, and they seem to be pretty polarizing with some folks loving them and others never using them, so I would make sure there was a lot of other material in there as well so I could sell to as large a segment of the A5E customer base as possible. They also tend to require some fairly deep thought. I was working on O5E precursor to them which only had one feat per class combo and one less class to worry about for MONTHS and I didn't have a bunch of other projects on my plate at the same time.

Covering all possible multiclass combinations with a dedicated synergy feat chain is a multi-year project, not something that will drop all at once.

 

[Timespike]

Which is why you follow steampunkette and do it as a Kickstarter to raise the capital.

The financial angle is just one of many in play here. There's also a time element, for one thing. And while you can indeed raise money from crowdfunding platforms, nobody has yet figured out a way to raise hours.

There's other stuff to consider, too; for example, we've been discussing a possible 6th volume off and on for months now and don't yet have a decision about what to do with it (with the two main options being releasing it as a standalone or saving the content for a collected product), and there are some other miscellaneous odds and ends.

 

[Tessarael]

Awesome, I absolutely love the idea of having multiclass feats for every possible combination of classes!
The Tome of Character Options would be an insta-buy or insta-pledge for me!

The problem with multi-class synergy feats is that if you have say n classes, then you need n x (n - 1)/2 sets of feats to cover all the different classes. It's a little frustrating for example, that sorcerer/fighter, warlock/fighter, wizard/ranger, sorcerer/ranger, and warlock/ranger cannot take the Bladechanter feats. I would suggest to try and make sufficiently generic versions of these feats, that they're pertinent to more than just one pair of classes.

It might also be worth looking at how Pathfinder 2E handles multi-classing, by instead having archetype feats, that allow you to get a few of the abilities of another class.

 

[Timespike]

The problem with multi-class synergy feats is that if you have say n classes, then you need n x (n - 1)/2 sets of feats to cover all the different classes. It's a little frustrating for example, that sorcerer/fighter, warlock/fighter, wizard/ranger, sorcerer/ranger, and warlock/ranger cannot take the Bladechanter feats. I would suggest to try and make sufficiently generic versions of these feats, that they're pertinent to more than just one pair of classes.

It might also be worth looking at how Pathfinder 2E handles multi-classing, by instead having archetype feats, that allow you to get a few of the abilities of another class.

That sounds like a great project for another designer to pick up, but my intention is to do it "longhand" and cover all of the individual combinations. Which, yes, I realize is a lot of synergy feat trees; with the 13 AG classes, plus the artificer and savant and the three third-party classes so far (esper, scholar, and witch), that comes out to a a total of 171 combinations. Yes, it'll keep me busy for years, but that's actually part of the point; a huge pool of things to do like this is good for product line longevity.

However, I realize that folks probably want certain combinations more than others, which I'm doing my best to take into account with the combinations I schedule. For example, the next planned Thematic Toolkit will be a 3-class one covering wizard, savant, and artificer which are all Intelligence classes and most likely to be mixed with each other. I've got 12 of the combinations covered so far, and I haven't overlapped with the ones covered in the AG yet, though I do eventually want to hit those as well, because I have different takes on some of the combinations (a more heavily armored mage rather than lightly-armored dual-wielding one represented by the Bladechanter, for example). Which is also part of the point for me; I personally want herald/sorcerer and ranger/wizard to feel very different in play. If you look at Thematic Toolkit: Arcane Avenger and Thematic Toolkit: Venomous Shadow, you can determine for yourself whether I succeeded.

 

[lichmaster]

The problem with multi-class synergy feats is that if you have say n classes, then you need n x (n - 1)/2 sets of feats to cover all the different classes. It's a little frustrating for example, that sorcerer/fighter, warlock/fighter, wizard/ranger, sorcerer/ranger, and warlock/ranger cannot take the Bladechanter feats. I would suggest to try and make sufficiently generic versions of these feats, that they're pertinent to more than just one pair of classes.

It might also be worth looking at how Pathfinder 2E handles multi-classing, by instead having archetype feats, that allow you to get a few of the abilities of another class.

I know the drawback of course, but I understood that having all possible O(n^2) combinations is something the author is actually pursuing. If you want, it's a bit the course of class based systems: either you are quite rigid and only allow specific combinations, or you need to cover a lot of them (eventually all of them, due to players' requests). On the opposite side, a classless system may simply need a system to generate (or help you generate) those synergies

 

[lichmaster]

Covering all possible multiclass combinations with a dedicated synergy feat chain is a multi-year project, not something that will drop all at once.

I totally understand your point, although I personally prefer having a big, very beefy but complete release than having several subprojects to collect (I need to remind where's what, etc). Which is also why I'm waiting patiently for the full volume containing all MOARs

 

[arms]

I totally understand your point, although I personally prefer having a big, very beefy but complete release than having several subprojects to collect (I need to remind where's what, etc). Which is also why I'm waiting patiently for the full volume containing all MOARs

which is why I'm making myself an excel document, it's taking a while, but all thematic toolkits have been added for now, up to adding MOAR, Esper, GPG, and other stuff, somethimes I wonder why my past self was crazy enugh to start the excel file, then I need fast access to something and I remember

 

[Tessarael]

Let me rephrase my point: If you make a synergy feat applicable to more class combinations, then it is of broader interest than one which is narrowly restricted to two specific classes. Moreover, the feat benefits may not need to be tied to a specific pair of classes.

As an example of how to make synergy feats more generic:

Shadowdancer: make it 1 spell point, 1 sorcery point, or one 1st level spell slot to teleport 30' as a bonus action to an area of darkness or dim light. You also gain 60' darkvision and can see in color this way, or +30' darkvision if you already had it. Prerequisite also changes to 2d6 sneak attack and the ability to cast 2nd level spells from the shadow school (e.g., Darkness or Invisibility).

Shadowmancer: you regain 1 spell point or sorcery point every time you cast a spell from the shadow school; or one 1st level spell slot every time you cast two spells from the shadow school. Stealth specialty for hiding in darkness/dim light and advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks to do so. And after using your Shadowdancer teleport, you can take the Dodge action with your reaction.

Shadow Assassin: While hidden from a target and in darkness or dim light, you can apply your Sneak Attack damage to an Eldritch Blast or cantrip that deals damage. The sneak attack damage may be applied once only vs. a single target on your turn, or as a reaction.