Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
Whose job is it then? Government? The individual?It's not the employers job to train people. Stop trying to put the burden where it doesn't belong.
Whose job is it then? Government? The individual?It's not the employers job to train people. Stop trying to put the burden where it doesn't belong.
Who cares. Governments do silly things. We can afford it. Greece can't, yet does it anyway.
Current demand vastly outweighs supply
It's not the employers job to train people. Stop trying to put the burden where it doesn't belong.
Whose job is it then? Government? The individual?
In short the problem is not to do with how silly things are (whether or not they are silly). I'm glad you agree. The problem is spending beyond what you can actually afford. On paper before the crash Greece could afford what it was spending. The problem was that its books were a work of fiction. I.e. fraud.
Current demand
False. These skilled positions already pay a lot. If pay were the reason, we wouldn't have a problem. Also, luring people away fixes nothing. It just shifts the empty jobs around.There are four ways of getting a trained workforce.
1: You can pay enough to recruit an already trained workforce, luring them away from rivals if necessary.
2: You can pay enough to make it worthwhile for people to fund their own training (possibly mixed with some advertising)
3: You can train unskilled people yourselves.
4: You can go cap in hand to the government and beg them to train people for you.
What we have is a bunch of whiny employers who think that fully trained people mspring fully formed from Zeus' brow and are unwilling to pay enough to poach people, unwilling to pay enough to get people to train themselves, and unwilling to set up their own training courses. I'm putting the blame exactly where it belongs. On the whiny employers who have decided in a vacuum what rates for a skilled person are and think that their ideas can set that wage and that they are immune to market forces.
And supply is nowhere is sight.
False. These skilled positions already pay a lot. If pay were the reason, we wouldn't have a problem.
Also, luring people away fixes nothing. It just shifts the empty jobs around.
Er, how does this work? If they don't have jobs, they can't afford to fund their own training no matter how much jobs pay.
A few companies do this, but it's not their job to do so.
Nope, or if they've done this, the government has told the companies to go pound sand.
5: the government can just train people itself, rather than hand out free money forever.
The employers aren't getting anything done
and what I am saying has nothing to do with companies other than to note that jobs are available for trained poor people. Maybe companies are being whiny, and maybe they aren't. Who cares. Their whines have nothing to do with this issue.
And where are the training companies? After all people will pay for training. Both employees and companies.
Or is the real shortage one of skilled training companies? In which case that can be fixed.
The skilled positions clearly do not pay enough for people to think it's worth taking out a loan to get the training to fill them. Which means they don't pay what is needed for the position.
Loans. And cascade as people with unskilled jobs instead pay for training for the skilled ones, and the unskilled ones open up.
And that's entirely within the government's right. To not provide the companies the subsidies they want. Looking after the people not the corporations.
If you've been paying attention, you know that I've been saying that the government should provide money to people to become trained.The government does not do lean in any way, shape, or form (which is just as well because lean cuts things to the bone and requires supervision by adults not politicians). Training people to program in FORTRAN wouldn't be much use to anyone.
Are you really saying that the government is more effective at both sorting out skills-based training and giving people that training than the private sector is? That the private sector is that inefficient? In which case why not just nationalise those companies?
The only way the government can train the right numbers of people is to create a Command Economy. The government doesn't know who is going to need training or in what skills. And it certainly isn't the government's job to ensure that any business has the workers it wants on hand. The main reason for the suppposed shortage of skilled workers is the whines of the business owners and their desire to have skilled workers without paying for them.
And that you say that it's the employee's responsibility to get training without saying that it's the employer's responsibility to pay enough to make sure that being trained is a smart economic decision for those people to get trained shows a lot about your assumptions and how little you understand even right wing economics.
Nope. There are schools all over that provide training. The problem is money.
You should try being poor sometime. Getting loans and the ability to go to school instead of survive is rather hard for them.
...
You clearly don't know what it's like to be poor and unskilled or you wouldn't be suggesting things like that.
This discussion is not about companies or subsidies. It's about training the poor to be contributors instead of takers.
If you've been paying attention, you know that I've been saying that the government should provide money to people to become trained.
The government does in fact know what skills are needed. It tracks these things. And no, I never said it was the employee's responsibility to get training. I said it was the individual's responsibility. They aren't an employee until AFTER the training and have no employer for that position before then.
Actually this was a leading question for you. I'm glad you've got half a clue and realise that claiming it's the individual's responsibility to get training is (a) silly and (b) impractical.
Which doesn't make it the government's responsibility to ensure that the employees that corporations need are trained.
No it's not. It's about whether companies should base their training programs on government handouts or whether they should either be allowed to play chicken with the welfare system or be allowed to go bust through not actually wanting to pay fair wages.
And this is why education should be free to all without strings.
If the person is too stupid to look up what jobs are out there, that person deserves what he gets.So it's the individual's responsibility to be trained on the offchance a job might be availale. And the company doesn't have a responsibility to make sure it has a workforce that's trained in doing the job it needs done?
It's not silly at all. It is very much the responsibility of the individual. Not every is capable of meeting that responsibility is all.
It's certainly not the responsibility of the companies.
Since the government has chosen to step in to help the poor, helping the poor meet their training responsibility is a part of that.
If the person is too stupid to look up what jobs are out there, that person deserves what he gets.
The companies are the ones who claim that workers need training. And the ones that profit because the workers are trained. But mysteriously the costs required for this aren't something that the companies should ever shoulder - instead they should be given all they want on a silver platter.
Because the government has decided to do something it must do everything you can think of?