kevin_video
Explorer
Trust me, we all want a happy ending. Unfortunately, no one's going to be holding their breath on this one.
Fire Mountain Games - 5 years since funding - communication thread
mach1.9pants
Hero
I backed the previous AP and really loved it, and I was gutted at the time I didn't have the money to back this one! So I'm hoping it works out for you guys, I mean even Razor Coast appeared years after I backed it, so it could possible.
vikingirishman
First Post
Backer here. I popped on for what has become a quarterly check-in to see what the comment section for the KS was up to, as that's the closest thing to an update that I can reasonably expect, and saw the links to here.
Way of the Wicked is still one of the best APs I've run, and I was excited to back Throne of Night. Like, my backer number is 9. And thus far I've paid $63 for a pdf Way of the Wicked Book 7 and not a damn thing more.
To be perfectly honest, I've written this KS off as a loss years ago, but I'm perfectly happy to support any efforts to get McBride to do...literally anything.
Way of the Wicked is still one of the best APs I've run, and I was excited to back Throne of Night. Like, my backer number is 9. And thus far I've paid $63 for a pdf Way of the Wicked Book 7 and not a damn thing more.
To be perfectly honest, I've written this KS off as a loss years ago, but I'm perfectly happy to support any efforts to get McBride to do...literally anything.
Mirko Hess
First Post
I backed this "project" with 150$ plus shipping (Europe) which brought me to 200$ and was dumb enough to throw another 150$ for the WotW books into it, so I financed about 350$ worth of kickstarter backings for McBride.
Happy ending? Uh-hm. Their ain´t no "happy ending" there man. That ship has sailed 2 years ago. Even IF something gets released (and come on, are you kidding me?) 50-75% of backers will still be hosed because 1. there´s no way in hell McBride will release a complete Adventure Path imo, best you can hope for is some half-baked scribbles and notes and tons of art. Then you can try to bake the
together yerself if´n ye got the talent and time for that and 2. many people aren´t even playing no Pathfinder anymore and those that still do will probably jump over to 2nd soon. Meaning even more work should something be released.
Also I really wish people would stop referencing Razor Coast. Yeah, Razor Coast WAS delayed by a lifetime and yeah, Nick Logue DID stop communicating at some time. BUT he did so because he had SERIOUS health problems at that time and the moment he could he came forth, came clean with his backers, refunded ALL their money AND gave Razor Coast over to the Frogs so it could be finished. Didn´t see Nick running around backing every project he could find on kickstarter while he was gone and out. In the end Nick proved to be a man of honor and integrity and I doubt McBride can even spell those words.
But I have to say what saddens me is that Michael Clarke is drawn into this and seems to suffer some of the negative effects too. A shame. The guy did his utmost best to keep us up to date (as far as he could) and had the guts to communicate even in the times people were already plenty angry. Gotta give him credit for that! As Kevin_video I´m glad he at least got the money for the art stuff he did, as much as I would want my money back, I´d not want to cheat him out of the cash he got for a job well done.
That said, I don´t think at this stage there´s much to be done. Let´s be honest, kickstarter will not do a fricking thing. They won´t go after his account (or if they will, which I doubt, they certainly will not control or care whether he just opens up another one). McBride will not release anything anytime soon (and imo not ever) unless he is forced to do so by court. So, only thing to do is wait and see whether any US backer is pissed off enough to go after him in that arena while we non-US guys and gals watch helplessly from the sidelines......
Happy ending? Uh-hm. Their ain´t no "happy ending" there man. That ship has sailed 2 years ago. Even IF something gets released (and come on, are you kidding me?) 50-75% of backers will still be hosed because 1. there´s no way in hell McBride will release a complete Adventure Path imo, best you can hope for is some half-baked scribbles and notes and tons of art. Then you can try to bake the
together yerself if´n ye got the talent and time for that and 2. many people aren´t even playing no Pathfinder anymore and those that still do will probably jump over to 2nd soon. Meaning even more work should something be released. Also I really wish people would stop referencing Razor Coast. Yeah, Razor Coast WAS delayed by a lifetime and yeah, Nick Logue DID stop communicating at some time. BUT he did so because he had SERIOUS health problems at that time and the moment he could he came forth, came clean with his backers, refunded ALL their money AND gave Razor Coast over to the Frogs so it could be finished. Didn´t see Nick running around backing every
project he could find on kickstarter while he was gone and out. In the end Nick proved to be a man of honor and integrity and I doubt McBride can even spell those words.But I have to say what saddens me is that Michael Clarke is drawn into this and seems to suffer some of the negative effects too. A shame. The guy did his utmost best to keep us up to date (as far as he could) and had the guts to communicate even in the times people were already plenty angry. Gotta give him credit for that! As Kevin_video I´m glad he at least got the money for the art stuff he did, as much as I would want my money back, I´d not want to cheat him out of the cash he got for a job well done.
That said, I don´t think at this stage there´s much to be done. Let´s be honest, kickstarter will not do a fricking thing. They won´t go after his account (or if they will, which I doubt, they certainly will not control or care whether he just opens up another one). McBride will not release anything anytime soon (and imo not ever) unless he is forced to do so by court. So, only thing to do is wait and see whether any US backer is pissed off enough to go after him in that arena while we non-US guys and gals watch helplessly from the sidelines......
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jaynay27
Explorer
I stopped getting responses from kickstarter over 2 weeks ago (just sent another email asking for an update).
I can only hope this is because there is legal action now pending, though Gary McBride continues to back project after project (2 more since I last checked only a few days ago) so that seems unlikely.
*Edit* I notice the FMG website is now no longer there either. how long ago did that disappear?
I can only hope this is because there is legal action now pending, though Gary McBride continues to back project after project (2 more since I last checked only a few days ago) so that seems unlikely.
*Edit* I notice the FMG website is now no longer there either. how long ago did that disappear?
kevin_video
Explorer
The website's been down since mid last year. I happened to find out about it and posted it in the comments and on the Paizo forum. You can still access it through the Wayback Machine site. I think around August 11th is when it works properly. Otherwise you're looking at a white page with the occasional spattering of black text and pics.
kevin_video
Explorer
It some ways it's a little selfish to say, but I miss designing encounters and items for Gary's adventures.
For "Way of the Wicked", I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that the government and imperial faction would just go "All these prison guards and highly ranked personal are dead, and all of the convicts have escaped. We don't have any bodies to show that the prisoners are dead, but I'm sure the swamp consumed them and did our job for us. Open and shut case. Let's go grab a sandwich." No. You have bounty hunters. You have people who are trained by the High Inquisitor himself to track down and absolutely verify that these people are dead or finish the job that the incompetent prison couldn't. That made more sense to me. Even Gary admitted he enjoyed the idea, and that he added my NPCs to his own home game. I felt a tinge of pride. I continued to do this for each of the books for Way of the Wicked, essentially doing a journal about all of the changes I'd made to the entire campaign. Some encounters I had make more sense, and gave better builds. It helped that I had done Sean K. Reynolds' class on Designing Pathfinder. Others eventually did their own changes and shared them, using Hero Lab to aid them. I still don't have Hero Lab. Everything I do/did was done by hand.
I had planned on doing the same thing with "Throne of Night", and technically did. I converted the mithral shirt from "The Hobbit", added and converted a few 3PP 3.0 monsters that I read about and thought would fit beautifully, and when it originally seemed like Book 3 and 4 were only going to be late, I shared and converted other underground scenarios that could be used to tide things over until they did come out. When it was discovered it was merely a pipe dream, I found an old AD&D module that was posted online, converted everything, and had that be the final module. It made sense since the whole premise was about a dwarven mine that you'd been sent to uncover and reclaim after mysterious circumstances had led to so many dwarves dying there. Given what we know about the supposed "final boss" for ToN, I think I like that ending better than what we were going to get. I'm sure it's explained well enough in Gary's notes, but I don't know that I'll really understand how the aboleth and star spawns ended up being the main encounters for the rest of the game. Just seemed like too much of an M. Night twist at the end. Four books are about fighting drow and then suddenly books 5 and 6 are about taking down aboleth and other aberrations? Not to mention the final book cover shows what can only be described as Atlantis. Again, I'm sure it would have been great, but seemed out of place.
This whole ordeal even managed to find me work with three mini bestiaries getting published. When Gary had finally updated with full summaries and pictures of the four books we'd never see, but not releasing anything on the half-god scenario besides a single picture, I converted a little of that too: a drow marilith monarch, a godling lich, and spider riders. The blog has essentially gone to seed now and is basically just spam. I did manage to go through my actual posts and mark them for ease of traversing.
My group never got past the first book due to adult life. They all played drow nobles, and ended up doing the dwarf part of the AP because they decided to turn on the other drow, and this was just how things worked out. They had a blast. It's just too bad that none of us will ever experience the true ending.
I miss designing and changing things to better the narrative, but with everything that's happened, I've lost my drive. There doesn't seem to be any point any more either. At the start people were thankful and used it all for their own games. Now, Pathfinder is pretty much a thing of the past for a lot of groups as they've moved on to 5e. And with Pathfinder 2.0's playtest coming in August, all the more so. Then you've got all of the 3PP who are redesigning Pathfinder 1.0 in their own image and making a 1.5 edition of the system.
My group only recently moved to Pathfinder from D&D 3.5, and my other group only plays Pathfinder Society and Starfinder Society. This includes the modules and adventure paths. It's all about the chronicle sheets for them. I'm the new Venture Lieutenant here so I run most of the games. Some day we hope to bring in 5e Adventurer's League, but we have to learn 5e first.
Maybe some day I'll find my groove again and make time. I feel like I still have an adventure path in me, or at least a trilogy of an adventure. Unfortunately, it's Pathfinder 1.0 based, and with my hands being what they are now I can't design maps like other people can.
I still want "Throne of Night" completed. I think we could all use that piece of mind so we can finally move on from this.
For "Way of the Wicked", I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that the government and imperial faction would just go "All these prison guards and highly ranked personal are dead, and all of the convicts have escaped. We don't have any bodies to show that the prisoners are dead, but I'm sure the swamp consumed them and did our job for us. Open and shut case. Let's go grab a sandwich." No. You have bounty hunters. You have people who are trained by the High Inquisitor himself to track down and absolutely verify that these people are dead or finish the job that the incompetent prison couldn't. That made more sense to me. Even Gary admitted he enjoyed the idea, and that he added my NPCs to his own home game. I felt a tinge of pride. I continued to do this for each of the books for Way of the Wicked, essentially doing a journal about all of the changes I'd made to the entire campaign. Some encounters I had make more sense, and gave better builds. It helped that I had done Sean K. Reynolds' class on Designing Pathfinder. Others eventually did their own changes and shared them, using Hero Lab to aid them. I still don't have Hero Lab. Everything I do/did was done by hand.
I had planned on doing the same thing with "Throne of Night", and technically did. I converted the mithral shirt from "The Hobbit", added and converted a few 3PP 3.0 monsters that I read about and thought would fit beautifully, and when it originally seemed like Book 3 and 4 were only going to be late, I shared and converted other underground scenarios that could be used to tide things over until they did come out. When it was discovered it was merely a pipe dream, I found an old AD&D module that was posted online, converted everything, and had that be the final module. It made sense since the whole premise was about a dwarven mine that you'd been sent to uncover and reclaim after mysterious circumstances had led to so many dwarves dying there. Given what we know about the supposed "final boss" for ToN, I think I like that ending better than what we were going to get. I'm sure it's explained well enough in Gary's notes, but I don't know that I'll really understand how the aboleth and star spawns ended up being the main encounters for the rest of the game. Just seemed like too much of an M. Night twist at the end. Four books are about fighting drow and then suddenly books 5 and 6 are about taking down aboleth and other aberrations? Not to mention the final book cover shows what can only be described as Atlantis. Again, I'm sure it would have been great, but seemed out of place.
This whole ordeal even managed to find me work with three mini bestiaries getting published. When Gary had finally updated with full summaries and pictures of the four books we'd never see, but not releasing anything on the half-god scenario besides a single picture, I converted a little of that too: a drow marilith monarch, a godling lich, and spider riders. The blog has essentially gone to seed now and is basically just spam. I did manage to go through my actual posts and mark them for ease of traversing.
My group never got past the first book due to adult life. They all played drow nobles, and ended up doing the dwarf part of the AP because they decided to turn on the other drow, and this was just how things worked out. They had a blast. It's just too bad that none of us will ever experience the true ending.
I miss designing and changing things to better the narrative, but with everything that's happened, I've lost my drive. There doesn't seem to be any point any more either. At the start people were thankful and used it all for their own games. Now, Pathfinder is pretty much a thing of the past for a lot of groups as they've moved on to 5e. And with Pathfinder 2.0's playtest coming in August, all the more so. Then you've got all of the 3PP who are redesigning Pathfinder 1.0 in their own image and making a 1.5 edition of the system.
My group only recently moved to Pathfinder from D&D 3.5, and my other group only plays Pathfinder Society and Starfinder Society. This includes the modules and adventure paths. It's all about the chronicle sheets for them. I'm the new Venture Lieutenant here so I run most of the games. Some day we hope to bring in 5e Adventurer's League, but we have to learn 5e first.
Maybe some day I'll find my groove again and make time. I feel like I still have an adventure path in me, or at least a trilogy of an adventure. Unfortunately, it's Pathfinder 1.0 based, and with my hands being what they are now I can't design maps like other people can.
I still want "Throne of Night" completed. I think we could all use that piece of mind so we can finally move on from this.
Suckerpuncher
First Post
It should be obvious by now that Gary is a con man and will very likely never finish Throne of Night.
It also should be obvious that kickstarter.com will do nothing against Gary's fraud not even close his account. They didn't close accounts of other fraud projects in the past, too.
So whining and sending messages won't help. It's a waste of time!
The only thing most people here can do is to never spend cash on anything that has the names Gary McBride and Fire Mountain Games on it and destroy his reputation.
US-based backer can sue him, there was already one Kickstarter fraud case in court and the scammer had to pay back the money at the end. Of course he couldn't but nonetheless, he got a distress warrant which means even if he gains money in the future he has to use it to pay his debts back. The warrant will stand for many years. I would like something similiar for our friend McFraud too.
It also should be obvious that kickstarter.com will do nothing against Gary's fraud not even close his account. They didn't close accounts of other fraud projects in the past, too.
So whining and sending messages won't help. It's a waste of time!
The only thing most people here can do is to never spend cash on anything that has the names Gary McBride and Fire Mountain Games on it and destroy his reputation.
US-based backer can sue him, there was already one Kickstarter fraud case in court and the scammer had to pay back the money at the end. Of course he couldn't but nonetheless, he got a distress warrant which means even if he gains money in the future he has to use it to pay his debts back. The warrant will stand for many years. I would like something similiar for our friend McFraud too.
kevin_video
Explorer
Seems like the US backers aren't going after him now. They're too broke to take him to court. It's even worse that you essentially have to take him to a specific court in New York. Everyone's so burned out from this KS that they've more or less written it off or forgotten about it. That may very well have been part of the plan as well.
kevin_video
Explorer
Saw today that every post on Paizo that called Gary out for being a con artist and fraud, and to not buy his products, was removed by staff. Not even the least bit surprised.
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