D&D 5E Firearms, Explosives and You

[aramis erak]

Ever since WoTC released the early sample of the DMG with firearms and explosives rules I've been curious how people would react, but strangely I haven't seen a lot of discussion.

I'm just wondering, what does everyone think? Personally they seem to do more damage than I was expecting (especially the modern firearms). I saw one person who thought that invalidated wizards, which has been a bane of past attempts at introducing firearms to D&D. I mean if a fighter can grab a few grenades and an M-16 and be better than a wizard with more HP, why even have the wizard class at all?

So is that what's going on here? If you wanted to balance it would you reduce the damage or is it fine as is? What about proficiency? How would that work?

The AD&D 1E, D&D 3E, & D&D 3.5E DMG's had firearms. So it's not like it's a new thing. And the Cyclopedia edition of BX/BECMI has lasers in the Hollow World (Blacklore Valley).

It's just a legacy option. Easily ignored by those who don't want them, but also of use for those who do.

 

[DammitVictor]

Since my current campaign is Shroompunk, a couple of my PCs have firearms. I've been using the DMG stats, except I adjusted the damage downwards to make them more level with standard weapons-- pistols are 2d4 and rifles are 2d6. Don't understand the fetish some people have with turning firearms into magic death wands.

 

[Derren]

Since my current campaign is Shroompunk, a couple of my PCs have firearms. I've been using the DMG stats, except I adjusted the damage downwards to make them more level with standard weapons-- pistols are 2d4 and rifles are 2d6. Don't understand the fetish some people have with turning firearms into magic death wands.

As I said, how else would you make them different in D&D? Especially as the "romantic" impression people have from firearms (armor piercing knight killers) is pretty much the complete opposite of their real world advantages (ease of use, possible to create on an industrial scale).

 

[77IM]

A slight damage boost is enough -- 2d4 and 2d6 are better than any standard ranged weapons but won't break the game. One player's "romantic impression" is another player's "gee was I stupid to play a melee warrior."

 

[Wrathamon]

You could also just give advantage vs medium or heavy armored foes.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Problem is the D&D combat system does not model the advantages and disadvantages of firearms very well (especially when they simplified weapon types and proficiencies). Also the combat system is generally bad for ranged weapons (low ranges + HP bloat). To make firearms any different or even desirable over crossbows they need to increase the damage as this is the only value they can safely modify without breaking something (like with ignoring armor).

Agreed, but it's not just an issue with firearms. It's an overall limitation of the combat system. It can't model weapon differences well other than by increasing die size. It doesn't add random plusses anymore for more powerful weapons so it's the only way the system has left to make a weapon more powerful.

 

[aramis erak]

Agreed, but it's not just an issue with firearms. It's an overall limitation of the combat system. It can't model weapon differences well other than by increasing die size. It doesn't add random plusses anymore for more powerful weapons so it's the only way the system has left to make a weapon more powerful.

There is also having two smaller dice with different descriptors. For example, rather than the torch being a 1d6 club, it's a 1d4 bludgeoning improvised with 1d4 fire. Those immune or resistant to one usually aren't resistant to both.

 

[Wrathamon]

Agreed, but it's not just an issue with firearms. It's an overall limitation of the combat system. It can't model weapon differences well other than by increasing die size. It doesn't add random plusses anymore for more powerful weapons so it's the only way the system has left to make a weapon more powerful.

This isnt true.

The system has many ways of making a weapon more powerful then just adding dice or increasing the die.

1. you can give advantage (all the time or only vs. heavily armored targets)
2. you can make it crit more often ( have it crit on an 18)
3. you can make it ignore ac (instead of advantage just have it ignore any bonus from armor)
4. you can add rider effects to it on a hit in addition to the standard damage. (stun, cant take a reaction, bleed, save or die, infection prone, whatever you want that makes it feel more powerful).
5. exploding damage die

 

[77IM]

Guns should have different stats depending on if you want them to be common in the campaign or rare.

If a gun is rare, like a magic item ("This is my Boom Stick") then sure, give the fighter an assault rifle with 2d8 damage and 30 rounds in it and no way to replenish them and see what happens.

If you want guns to be part of the setting I wouldn't make them any more powerful than crossbows. Pistol d6, Musket d8, Blunderbus d10, something like that. Or at most 1 die size better than crossbows, although that still risks making bows and crossbows irrelevant, and makes ranged attacks in general a lot more appealing than melee. Maybe that's what you want but be aware that it will change group tactics considerably, and remember to equip your goblins with pistols and your orcs blunderbuses...

If you want to differentiate guns from crossbows, I'd create a custom feat for them. Not sure what it would do, but maybe +4 against foes in metal armor or hard armor (like a creature with a carapace), ignoring the Loading property of firearms, and extra damage on a crit or something.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Guns and explosives shouldn't be balanced with anything else. A well equipped, well trained medieval soldier would have no chance at all against his modern equivalent. If the D&D fighter and the D&D wizard are roughly balanced against each other, the modern soldier should vastly outmatch the wizard as well. Modern weapons can work in D&D with limited ammo, as others have said. If they become common and you even minimally try to account for their effect on the world, then you end up with something with very little resemblance to a standard D&D game.