Pathfinder 1E Firearms?

[Felorn Gloryaxe]

I honestly know someone who has survived 2 gunshots in real life, and they're not dead. I knew someone who was stabbed once and is dead now. The assumption that a gunshot is going to kill you, and a sword swipe is something more surviveable is absolutely silly. Both are just as deadly, and both also just as likely surviveable. Firearms aren't more deadly, they are equally deadly to melee arms. For those crying for more realistic damage, the problem exists in the game without firearms, just as much as with firearms. The skewed idea that firearms should be more deadly in combat compared to melee weapons is not based on reality. In the real world a one shot kill or a one stab kill is just as likely. So it doesn't work that way in game, and it shouldn't one shot kill RPG gaming would be short and boring - who'd really want that?

How many times was this person shot in the head though? Head shots typically mean insta-death. Unless it is a big creature with a very thick skull (like a bear, dragon, etc).

 

[SuperZero]

So an adventurer will always either land a fatal shot or miss entirely?
The gunslinger is trying to kill her enemy, of course, but if she doesn't manage that kill shot she's still close enough to graze.

I don't like called shots in general, but that rule doesn't really make any less sense than any other potentially-lethal attack dealing far-from-lethal damage.

 

[gamerprinter]

How many times was this person shot in the head though? Head shots typically mean insta-death. Unless it is a big creature with a very thick skull (like a bear, dragon, etc).

No headshot, but he was shot in the chest, and later shot through the back that exited above his navel.

Actually insta-death is more often a shot from between the eyes down to the throat, an actual headshot above the eyes is more surviveable than where I just described.

But back to my argument regarding firearms vs. melee weapons. If I used a 1d3 stilletto and shuved it into your ear an inch or two you're just as dead as if I shot you instead. The stilletto stab and a head shot are equally lethal, and equally surviveable. This applies to any weapon attack onto your head.

If you look at all military and police training in firing a pistol or assault rifle the goal is not a headshot, rather torso center mass. So the expectations of a headshot are pretty low, it's almost an accident if you got a headshot, as if you've missed where you were aiming.

 

[delericho]

How many times was this person shot in the head though?

In a hit point system, characters and creatures simply don't suffer head shots. They just don't happen, until those last few hit points are gone. Perhaps the character moved at the last instant. Perhaps his helmet deflected the worst of the blow. Perhaps it 'only' took away a piece of his ear. Or something like that.

Sure, it isn't realistic. Sure, scratch the surface and it doesn't make too much sense. But that's the nature of the game, the nature of hit points... and it works just as well for firearms as for any other weapon.

(Incidentally, you might want to check out the Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian (as in the "Master & Commander" film). The characters in those books are constantly getting injured, including shot, sometimes quite badly... and yet somehow they always seem to survive. Hit points actually model their adventures rather well.

 

[Felorn Gloryaxe]

No need to explain HP I know what it is but I don't consider a headshot grazing... Simple as that. No need to try and go into what HP is or who survived from gunshots.

 

[Felorn Gloryaxe]

No but with a gun and a head shot... It should be more than grazing. A sword slice across the face won't kill you but you should be blinded or stunned temporarily. I too don't like called shots, but when a system implements I prefer them to have adequate repercussions. Like I said in my post before I don't consider grazing a headshot. When I thought head shot I thought in the HEAD.

Edit: This is a reply to SuperZero

 

[N'raac]

If the called shot to the head is a dead-on-target right between the eyes head shot, then the target died. That happens if the firearm damage is sufficient to kill him. Perhaps it incapacitates him (below 0 hp, but not killed instantly), leaving him in need of first aid to prevent bleeding out. The rules already cover both of these - "dead" and "dying" - and a head hit is nothing more than special effects.

The Gunslinger Head Shot deed allows him to inflict an additional nasty effect from the graze that takes off a bunch of hp, eroding the target's resistance to damage, skill, luck, etc. It seems perfectly consistent as a combination of the hp system and the deadly aim of a gunslinger.

No, you don't get a called shot for an instant kill. That's not the point of the ability - nor should it be, considering it is only one of many aspects included in a low to mid level class ability.

 

[delericho]

Like I said in my post before I don't consider grazing a headshot. When I thought head shot I thought in the HEAD.

Fair enough. It is perhaps worth noting that people who are shot in the head can and do sometimes survive. A quick Google of "man shot in head survives" (without the quotation marks) threw up a number of links to news articles, of greater or lesser repute.

As regards the Gunslinger's called shot ability... it would probably suit you better if they called it something other than "headshot". In that regard, it's actually like a lot of my issues with 4e - taken as mechanics it works fine, but I had problems reconciling it because of some of the terminology used. Perhaps it should be called "head graze" instead?

 

[SuperZero]

It isn't called "headshot" in the rules text. It's called "targeting".
Targeting the head is exactly what she's doing. She might even hit it, too. Just not always, y'know, perfectly dead-center.

 

[Felorn Gloryaxe]

Fair enough. It is perhaps worth noting that people who are shot in the head can and do sometimes survive. A quick Google of "man shot in head survives" (without the quotation marks) threw up a number of links to news articles, of greater or lesser repute.

As regards the Gunslinger's called shot ability... it would probably suit you better if they called it something other than "headshot". In that regard, it's actually like a lot of my issues with 4e - taken as mechanics it works fine, but I had problems reconciling it because of some of the terminology used. Perhaps it should be called "head graze" instead?

This is what I was thinking (Just really couldn't think of a way to say it). The terminology makes me think that it is going through some part of the head. Not against the head or what ever. And even if people survive from headshots which I know some do, most aren't still up and fighting when one happens. People can still be standing when they are shot in the torso, arms, legs, etc.