First rule I don't like

[psionotic]

...I'm holding a good friend's 4e phb right now, and it kicks unholy arse. This thing looks super fun, and I can't wait to play.

That said, I don't like the new rules for knocking an enemy unconscious. Basically, whoever delivers the blow that drops someone to 0 or fewer can decide whether or not that blow was lethal or subdual (basically) damage.

It seems too easy for PCs to get interrogatable prisoners, without any chance of accidentally killing them, and without penalties for knocking them out. I'm thinking of houseruling this in some way, maybe by making all criticals auto lethal, or else by insisting that any attempt to knock someone out has to use either their melee or ranged basic attack instead of a power....

Thoughts on the core rule, or on these potential work arounds?

 

[smetzger]

That said, I don't like the new rules for knocking an enemy unconscious. Basically, whoever delivers the blow that drops someone to 0 or fewer can decide whether or not that blow was lethal or subdual (basically) damage.

How about before the player roles damage and before you tell them that they dropped the opponent, the player must decide if the damage is lethal or subdual.

If its subdual and it will not have dropped the opponent then maybe it does no damage or maybe 1/2 damage.

 

[Vendark]

I don't see what the problem is. Prisoners don't know anything the DM doesn't want them to know, so it's not like this rule is going to bring any plots crashing down.

And I hate systems that mechanically penalize players for trying to be merciful.

 

[themilkman]

This seemed odd to me, too.

Now, the "Say yes!" philosophy says that they should be able to capture whichever level 1 Kobold if they want. Does that Kobold have anything important to say? Probably not. Now the party needs to decide if they want to dispatch a helpless prisoner, release him so he can go back and warn the others, or turn him over to the local constabulary, which is just going to kill him anyway. After doing that a few times, I'm sure they'll stop taking prisoners... at least for the simple mobs.

If they want to leave the bosses alive to chat with him, that's fine too. Better than the old "This guy keeps all his correspondence in a chest. Look, a clue!" hook to the next quest.

 

[Thasmodious]

I like the rule in general. No tracking phantom hit points, non lethal damage or other complexities. It makes sense from dealing with HPs as abstraction. You've beat your opponent down, wounded him, overcome his defenses and his will to fight. You could deliver the death blow or turn your blade and hit him in the head with the pommel and knock him unconscious.

That said, you do have a point, and it could prove abusable. I don't think so in general. It makes sense to me that turning a killing blow into a knockout blow is something within the game system intentions. I do like the idea of leaving a chance that they kill him (sorry Inigo, I didn't mean to jog him so hard.). I don't think (potentially) punishing someone for critting is a good idea. More I think the DM making a quick %ile roll to see if he was knocked unconscious or hit too hard and killed would be a good idea. Toss a 20 and on a 5 or under, the PC kills him instead, maybe.

 

[Mort_Q]

Rules abuse requires the complicity of all the players in the game. It can't happen unless you want it to happen.

 

[Shroomy]

Nah, I quite like this rule as is. Its simple and effective (I remember some people bemoaning the fact that PCs could never capture an enemy since they automatically died at 0 hit points).

 

[Engilbrand]

When it comes to minions, I plan to allow the PCs to do anything that they want to do, up to killing the minion.
They attack normally. They hit. They could decide to do anything from knock unconscious to interrogate to cutting off the head. I don't see why this should really be an issue. If the guy has info, why wouldn't you want the players to have it? If he doesn't, it shouldn't matter.

 

[Cadfan]

And I hate systems that mechanically penalize players for trying to be merciful.

Amen! That's probably my biggest complaint about D&D over the years. The fact that fights are either lethal or pointless.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

And I hate systems that mechanically penalize players for trying to be merciful.

Why? It's a LOT easier to just run someone through then to subdue them. And quite frankly, you gain MUCH more by capturing someone, so yeah, it should be harder.