D&D 3E/3.5 Fix the Bard!- Bard 3.51 now online

[Firebeetle]

Nota Bene: If you feel the bard is fine as is and does not need fixing for any reason, please feel free to place your arguments in the thread linked below.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161198

I'm a bard player, and I have to say the bard still stinks compared to other classes. I know it's supposed to be "versatile" and "non-specialized" but I say it needs fixing. Here are a couple of suggestions, share your own.

1st Level, Perform Skill Points: The bard receives 8 extra skill points and 2 extra per level that may only be spent on the Perform Skill.

This takes care of the change of Perform skill to match Knowledge and Profession. That is, you have different specialities of the skill and each is a different skill.

4th Level, Jack-of-all-Trades, The bard may multiclass into the first level of any other class she meets the requirements for without XP penalty. The bard may only multiclass a number of times equal to 1/3 of her current bard level, rounded down. For example, an 8th level bard may multiclass twice. This multiclassing without penalty only applies for the first level of the new class, not for any levels taken thereafter.

Of course, that ability doesn't mean anything if you're a gnome or human and bard is your favored class. Just a thought.

 

[Chimera]

1st Level, Perform Skill Points: The bard receives 8 extra skill points and 2 extra per level that may only be spent on the Perform Skill.

This takes care of the change of Perform skill to match Knowledge and Profession. That is, you have different specialities of the skill and each is a different skill.

They increased the skill points of the Bard, but I still don't like the way they handle Perform. Nine types is a bit much and there's no effective reason to take more than one of them except for flavor.

Most GMs I've played with house rule Perform to some degree.

I'd have no problem with a free point or two of Perform per level.

The bard may multiclass into the first level of any other class she meets the requirements for without XP penalty. The bard may only multiclass a number of times equal to 1/3 of her current bard level, rounded down. For example, an 8th level bard may multiclass twice. This multiclassing without penalty only applies for the first level of the new class, not for any levels taken thereafter.

Don't much care for this. Given the weaknesses of the class, endless multi-classing becomes just another way of gaining the Performance Enhancing (sic) abilities of the class without actually being a Bard. It's like taking a level of the old Ranger class to get all the front-loaded abilities without any intention of being an actual Ranger.

I've just designed a 4th level Bard to be my future Cohort. My GM is going to introduce the character tonight, even though I just reached 5th level and won't be able to gain her services until I'm 6th and take Leadership.

I'd agree that the skills thing still sucks, even at 6/level, especially with all the various kinds of Perform.

I'd say that the spell progression is my biggest problem with the Bard class. She only gets 1 second level spell at 4th level, and ONLY if she has sufficiently high Charisma.

But then, the Perform/Inspire abilities are rather cool. Using Inspirational Boost (a Swift spell) from Complete Adventurer, she'll be at +2 using her Inspire Courage. A seriously great benefit to a party of 8! That alone makes her seriously worth the price of admission.

 

[ForceUser]

I gave the bard a d8 hit die, evasion at 7th level, and improved evasion at 17th level.

 

[Kisanji Arael]

ForceUser's advice is sound. However....

I know for a fact that Bards are not underpowered. They are not Fighters, Mages, Thieves, or Clerics, but they can help all of those classes. Even one bard can help an army immensely, possibly more than a Wizard and definitely more than a rogue. If a party does not have a rogue, then you can settle for the bard as far as skill points go. If the party sorcerer doesn't get buffs, then the bard is your man. A bard, unlike the four beforementioned, is not a one man army, and should not be compared to the classes that attempt to be.

Howwever, I have seen an epic bard cast Wish and Meteor Storm, and I then witnessed the DM rip the sheet from the player and burn it out of frustration. Damn spoilsport.

 

[the Jester]

In my low-magic campaign I give bards bonus feats periodically, off a set list of bardic-music-related feats. It makes a huge difference, actually- especially when one of them increases the numerical bonuses granted by bard songs by +1.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

There is a much simpler solution than a bunch of houserules if you allow the Complete Books to be used. Why not just use the Versitile Performer feat from the Complete Adventurer? It gives you a Perform check in as many Perform categories as your INT mod (Minimum 1). The Perform check for the other categories is equal to your highest Perform check. In addition, when you use two or more Perform skills together, you get a +2 on the check.

So, a Bard with INT 14 could use their skillpoints for one Perform category and essentially receive 2 free ones. And then pick them wisely so that they can always use two of them (say ... oratory, dance, stringed instruments). In this case, they would almost always get the +2 bonus as well.

If you really think the Bard is underpowered (and I disagree if they are used properly) .... just give them this feat for free at first level. That would pretty much solve your problem. And - what bard can't afford at least a 14 in INT? And what Bard really needs more than 3 Perform checks?

Edit: Oh, and if the INT bonus increases in the future, the Bard gets another Perform skill. So ... get yourself a headband of intellect!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Moved to House Rules.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Panask]

One of my house rules for bards: Starting at 2nd level, a bard has "virtual" ranks in every Perform skill equal to half her level. These act just like actual ranks, but they do not stack with actual ranks.

Panask
Servitar to Baldur

 

[Firebeetle]

We are interested in FIXING the bard, not justifing it.

ForceUser's advice is sound. However....

I know for a fact that Bards are not underpowered. They are not Fighters, Mages, Thieves, or Clerics, but they can help all of those classes. Even one bard can help an army immensely, possibly more than a Wizard and definitely more than a rogue. If a party does not have a rogue, then you can settle for the bard as far as skill points go. If the party sorcerer doesn't get buffs, then the bard is your man. A bard, unlike the four beforementioned, is not a one man army, and should not be compared to the classes that attempt to be.

To quote the bard (pun intended) "The latter end of his commonwealth forgets the beginning." You say the bard is not underpowered, but then he should not be compared to other classes. This thread is about comparing and overcoming. Let's not dilly dally about whether we should. I'm starting with the premise that the bard is broken and needs fixing. If you want to discuss whether in needs to be, start that thread somewhere else.

 

[Firebeetle]

d8 hit die might work better.

I gave the bard a d8 hit die, evasion at 7th level, and improved evasion at 17th level.

Not bad, but it doesn't really increase the "bardness" of the bard.