Flaming Sphere? Rules Expert HELP!!!

[The_Spider]

It sound like infiniti is pretty sure about this, I want to thank you for clearing this matter up for me, I now understand what line of effect is all about. I think back in 2nd addition flaming sphere could have been used this way.

About why the caster was using the spell in his own tower. The tower was made of stone and the room the spell was being used in had only empty bookshelves in it, besides the wizard feared for his life.

So to conclude the movement of the flaming sphere does require line of effect, so unfortunatly you couldnt have it turn a corner.

 

[Murrdox]

Eh, I'm still not really sold on the issue.

you're still creating the effect in a new space (by moving it) and this rule applies

I'd argue that creating a new effect is entirely different than directing an already existing one. Flaming Sphere says nothing in its spell description about what happens if Line of Effect between you and the sphere is obstructed.

Since I don't see anything in the spell description that mentions Line of Effect, and I don't see anything in the Line of Effect rules that mentions requiring Line of Effect to direct/control ANY spell, I don't really see where you are pulling that from.

It seems to me like all you need to do to direct the sphere is point or gesture in the direction you want it to go. Whether or not you can SEE where it's going doesn't really seem to matter as far as I can tell.

 

[Infiniti2000]

To set up a strawman (I think): you'd argue that the flaming sphere spellcaster could teleport across the world or perhaps even plane shift to the ethereal plane, and still control the flaming sphere?

The basis of my argument is that moving an effect to a new location is creating the effect there. This is supported by the first sentence of line of effect, which identifies what line of effect applies to. Namely: "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect." If you don't have line of effect to a target or space, then by this sentence alone, the spell can not affect the target or space. There are of course exceptions for some spells (dimension door), area spells, and 1ft-square holes. None of the exceptions have relevance to flaming sphere, however.

 

[Rhun]

I agree with Murrdox on this one. There is nothing in the spell description that says anything about Line of Effect.

 

[Rhun]

To set up a strawman (I think): you'd argue that the flaming sphere spellcaster could teleport across the world or perhaps even plane shift to the ethereal plane, and still control the flaming sphere?

The spell's description specifically prohibits this. The sphere winks out of existence if it moves outside the spell's range.

 

[Caliban]

I agree with Murrdox on this one. There is nothing in the spell description that says anything about Line of Effect.

The problem with allowing control of spells like this without Line of Effect is that it allows for some potentially abusive tactics.

Drop a Spectral Hand (or flaming sphere, rainbow pattern, various Bigby's Hand spells, Mordenkainen's Sword, etc), then encase yourself in an Otilukes Sphere (or behind a wall of Force) and zot your opponents while being nearly invulnerable.

I haven't searched through all the spells from the other books, but I'm pretty sure there are others that are even more powerful (Defenestrating Sphere?).

If you as a DM don't have a problem with this being an effective tactic, then allow it.

I chose to disallow it when it came up in a game I was running. I don't think the rules clearly state either way, but I require line of effect to control spell effects.

 

[Murrdox]

To set up a strawman (I think): you'd argue that the flaming sphere spellcaster could teleport across the world or perhaps even plane shift to the ethereal plane, and still control the flaming sphere?

No, I'd say both of those are wrong, because the text of the spell specifies that if the Flaming Sphere needs to be within range, or it winks out. Both Teleporting and a Plane Shift would cause that to happen. In addition, I am sure that there are separate rules I'm not aware of that prevent you from having an effect on ANY spells that you cast when you shift planes. You cannot even control a Dominatated person from a different plane.

The problem with allowing control of spells like this without Line of Effect is that it allows for some potentially abusive tactics.

Drop a Spectral Hand (or flaming sphere, rainbow pattern, various Bigby's Hand spells, Mordenkainen's Sword, etc), then encase yourself in an Otilukes Sphere (or behind a wall of Force) and zot your opponents while being nearly invulnerable.

How is that abusive? It is simply good spellcasting tactics.

It's the same as if an Archer was shooting through archery holes in a 6' thick stone wall. There's almost no way you're getting to him.

 

[dema]

Flaming Sphere

The Sphere is not solid, and appears to be a sheet of flame bent around to be a sphere, he should have peed on it -

About the Line of Effect, I guess you can think of it like a cell phone signal. You lose the connection if you do not have a clear path to the signal relay station. I need the Line Of Effect to make the call, and keep it, otherwise it drops.

My 2 coppers -


-de

 

[Rhun]

The Sphere is not solid, and appears to be a sheet of flame bent around to be a sphere, he should have peed on it -

Now that is funny! I got a good chuckle out of that.

About the Line of Effect, I guess you can think of it like a cell phone signal. You lose the connection if you do not have a clear path to the signal relay station. I need the Line Of Effect to make the call, and keep it, otherwise it drops.

I see it more as a remote control car. If you drive it behind a wall, you can still control it, you just don't have a very good idea of where it is going.