Flowchart of the Editions

[diaglo]

FWIW, the 1st Basic Set literally referred you to the upcoming AD&D manuals if you wanted to know more - it was explicitly an "entry drug" to AD&D. It was only with the Moldvay Basic Set that Classic D&D started to establish its own identity.

you mean the 1st and 2nd basic sets.
holmes had two.

the 1977 one
and the 1978 one.

 

[an_idol_mind]

I like it a lot. I think the "2.5" Player's Options books should be included as a step between 2E and 3E, or at least make the 2E box bigger and include them.

Besides being done in hardcover and having the same layout pattern as the revised Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, I don't think there's a lot in the Player's Option books that really added to D&D in the long run. Those books, while containing some good ideas, got abandoned fairly quickly. I think the Complete Handbooks added more to the development of the game, and I don't think I'd include them in an edition flowchart, either.

 

[hong]

What kind of magic item would a Flowchart of the Editions be?

 

[rossik]

Besides being done in hardcover and having the same layout pattern as the revised Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, I don't think there's a lot in the Player's Option books that really added to D&D in the long run. Those books, while containing some good ideas, got abandoned fairly quickly. I think the Complete Handbooks added more to the development of the game, and I don't think I'd include them in an edition flowchart, either.

very very good point.

as PO had so little support, i agree with you. imagine the DM trouble to adapt all boxes, adventures and campaings!

OTOH, just adding simple rules from fighters handbook or even kits (Altought i abandoned it later -need to say more than "bladesinger"?) add much to game, with just little modifications

 

[BeauNiddle]

Minor point - didn't they change the layout of the 4th ed PHB recently?

 

[rossik]

Minor point - didn't they change the layout of the 4th ed PHB recently?

well, i found this:

at:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=219957&page=1&pp=30

 

[Mark Hope]

Besides being done in hardcover and having the same layout pattern as the revised Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, I don't think there's a lot in the Player's Option books that really added to D&D in the long run. Those books, while containing some good ideas, got abandoned fairly quickly. I think the Complete Handbooks added more to the development of the game, and I don't think I'd include them in an edition flowchart, either.

The Players Options books codified the rules for, among other things, Reach, Attacks of Opportunity (the phrase originated there, not in 3e, for example), square-based combat, and had a percursor system for feats. It also had the system of variant class powers that later appeared in 3e. I'd say it was a strong influence in the design of 3e and should be included in the chart.

 

[wingsandsword]

Prestige classes were almost definitely inspired by the way Druids and Paladins (for example) are handled in the Rules Cyclopedia. There you must be either a Neutral Cleric or a Lawful Fighter of a certain level, and then you can change classes to Druid or Paladin.

Funny, I always thought that Prestige Classes were blatantly inspired by the AD&D 1e Bard and Thief-Acrobat, you either dual-class through several classes then adopt a completely new career path drawing a little from those classes, or you progress through one class then at a certain point when you meet prerequisites you branch off into a specialized variant of your normal class.

 

[wingsandsword]

I also think that the Player's Option/DM's Option books for 2e belongs in the evolutionary flowchart. The Combat & Tactics book introduced what was essentially a prototype of the 3e combat system, and the books did introduce what we would see as a early form of feat (i.e. spend character points on a special NWP that gives you a unique power/ability you can use). The Option books were built on the idea of giving players a lot of flexibility with the powers of their character, a more detailed skill system, a more tactical grid-oriented combat system, a lot of concepts that were definitely integrated fully into the core in 3e. The idea that mortal character progression had a hard stop at 30th level came from the Option series (High Level Campaigns), so the Option books appear to be part of the lineage to 4e as well.

Our gaming group regularly used 2.5 (what we called the Option series at the time, long before 3e and 3.5) and if you knew and played 2.5 the transition to 3e was much smoother than if you only played 2e core. It honestly seems like a missing link in the evolution of D&D.

 

[an_idol_mind]

The Players Options books codified the rules for, among other things, Reach, Attacks of Opportunity (the phrase originated there, not in 3e, for example), square-based combat, and had a percursor system for feats. It also had the system of variant class powers that later appeared in 3e. I'd say it was a strong influence in the design of 3e and should be included in the chart.

Those books did have an influence, but not more of an influence than a dozen or so other supplements that were also out and about. Do we count the Complete class books as an edition of their own?

I don't think the Player's Option series can really be considered a revision of the game because they weren't really supported. They were put out there, used a bit, and then largely ignored, even by other products being released by TSR at the time. Compare that to 3.5, which almost instantly became the default supported edition.

The chart is tracking editions, not what is considered influential and what isn't. Otherwise, it would have to be much, much bigger.