[Folks that like 4e] What are some things from previous editions that you miss?

[Dykstrav]

It's kinda a small thing, but I really miss randomly rolling for magic items and encounters. I know that the DMG has guidelines for random encounters, but it's not the same as 1E and 3E's chart of random monsters divided by level and rolled on a percentile-based chart.

I really don't like how 4E feels "incomplete." What I mean by this is that some players feel like they should be allowed to do anything that there isn't a rule for. A good example of this is with disarms--my group had a big deal with one players about how he should be allowed to disarm enemies with an attack roll because of the "Actions the Rules Don't Cover" section on page 42 of the DMG. He also argued vehemently about how such guidelines empower his character to decapitate foes and otherwise do whatever the hell he wants. Of course, alot of this sort of thing is the people you play with, but I really would have liked some more concrete guidelines and flat-out rules for certain situations.

I really would like to see something like 3E's Leadership feat or 1E's cohort rules.

 

[Dragonblade]

The one thing I really miss from 1e/2e is being able to play without minis. I miss the ability to just run games based purely on narrative description and scratch paper.

I like minis and the battlemat for big set piece battles, but sometimes I just want to wing it as a DM without having the burden of thinking in advance what the terrain is, where the monsters are positioned on the grid, and so on.

In 3e and 4e I just feel like if I don't have minis I'm cheating the players out of half the game.

I have run 3e/4e without minis and it does work, but it heavily depends on the right player. I have one player that can't get out of the grid mindset. When I tried to tell him his PC couldn't position himself to flank in one narrative combat, he got really upset and we had a big argument about where everything was.

We had these sorts of arguments back in 1e/2e days as well, but never with this undertone of his character being cheated out of his movement abilities. And honestly, I can't say I would have reacted any differently were I the player.

I don't really have a solution to this, other than to say I just miss some of the spectacular narrative combats I remember back in the day. But my memories could also be colored with nostalgia.

We rarely have rules arguments anymore and have played many a 4e session with nary a rulebook ever being opened. Something that never happened when we played older editions. For all the love I have for my old 1e/2e games, there were some huge game and night ruining arguments that came along with playing those editions. But still, I miss being able to run multiple sessions off two paragraphs of notes. Something I have not felt comfortable doing since 2e.

 

[LostSoul]

Wandering monster tables.

Random treasure tables.

No. Appearing.

edit: Slower healing.

If I say a character is a "dwarf," he might be a specific monster, but he might also be a specific kind of NPC, or companion character, or even PC, and in each situation, he'll have different rules for what he can do.

Think fluff first, rules later. What can a dwarf do? Resolve it in whatever way seems best.

 

[Stuntman]

I miss random magic item tables. 4E makes it much easier on the DM when building encounters, but I find that deciding on treasure tends to take more time for me than I would like. Tables that I can simply roll to get a random item of level X would be nice. That way, I don't have to read every single description of everything before deciding on what to put in as treasure. I'd like to roll for an item, see if it is appropriate. If it is. That's it. If not, I'll just roll another. I figure that most of the time if I randomly roll, I'll get something that is appropriate.

 

[mykelsss]

I'd like a little more in the way of non-combat magic (and, in 4E, powers for other classes). I like the ritual system, but I'd like to see a little more in the way of non-combat utility powers.

I really don't like how 4E feels "incomplete." What I mean by this is that some players feel like they should be allowed to do anything that there isn't a rule for. A good example of this is with disarms--my group had a big deal with one players about how he should be allowed to disarm enemies with an attack roll because of the "Actions the Rules Don't Cover" section on page 42 of the DMG.

These. 4e needs rules for out of combat powers! We need a system for adjudicating based on class and level what a character can and can't do. Is that druid able to create a little moisture in the surrounding air without casting a ritual? Why can't the Fighter disarm an opponent with a check due to his skill with a weapon? Can the avenger make his body glow faintly by channeling his deity's power?

These things are seen as at-wills with shamans, bards, etc. But it's not nearly enough! Out-of-combat powers like the mage's cantrips are things we need specialized for all the classes! Powers that don't require killing things. I'm very surprised this hasn't been house-ruled at all.

I hope Wizards or somebody gets wind of this. Class differentiation needs to be increased and this would be an excellent way of doing it.

 

[Gothmog]

I'll echo the wandering monster tables, and random magic item generation (which I found an online app for). 4e has done a lot to detach magic items from the core abilities of a character, but I'd like to see the magic item economy eliminated. Like Barastrondo, I'd like to see wealth used more for strongholds, temples, etc rather than spent on magic items. I'd also like to see magic items made a bit more versatile, with each item having an encounter and daily power. And while I like rituals, tying their use to gold/residuum usage isn't to my taste- maybe have them use rare components, etc. Some non-combat utility powers or abilities would be cool too. Finally, we've also houseruled in rules for lasting injuries and slower healing.

Other than those minor things which we have largely corrected, 4e is damn near perfect for me and my groups.

 

[Stalker0]

I miss completely flexible multiclassing. It had its problems, but it probably did more than anything else to give a person a real feeling of control and creativity in making a character.

 

[Paradox]

I miss boxed sets.

"Book for players. Book for DMs. Oh! Nice map! Another nice map! Wow, a handout!"

The new folders are neat, but somehow I want more contents. Two books and a map doesn't feel enough. I want more.

 

[Hussar]

I miss Morale rules.

Yeah, I know, clunky as they were and whatnot, but I love having them there. Sometimes I just don't know whether or not the monster would run. Having a "Oh crap I should run away" stat is something I would love to see implemented. Perhaps something like Savage World's Shaken status.

 

[Blizzardb]

I miss the old warlock. He was way cooler than the new one. I also miss the psionics rules, although we'll get them, eventually. Finally, I miss the Eberron supplements and Dragonshard articles.