Forgotten Realms "Canon Lawyers"

[Derulbaskul]

The novels themselves would be the other half of "continuity porn"

I maintain that it is the novels that cause all the problems. Staying abreast of the Realms is quite simple if you only rely on the game books but the novels are a problem (in part because many of the earlier ones are turgid dreck).

I try to run a canon game as much as possible but, by the same token, I'm enjoying my attempts to run a post-Spellplague 4E game neither aided nor hindered by canon.

I always tell my players that the game will be as close to canon as possible but the novels will be ignored.

(And folks... some of us are semi-autistic arch-pedants. It's "canon" unless we're talking about a big gun.)

 

[jdrakeh]

The thing is, WotC has access to at least a dozen writers who are experts in anything FR. They wrote the best 3.5 FR books and novels after all. I don't think they would have had any issue keeping up with the Realms canon.

Actually, some WotC freelancers have personally mentioned on these very forums that writing to the library of FR canon had become increasingly burdensome because it required an unseemly amount of fact-checking and research far in excess of that demanded by other RPG writing projects.

 

[Nymrohd]

That does sound like an issue and I have to admit I know nothing of how WotC assigns projects. There just are certain writers who I'd expect do not need to do much research to write a book in FR and I don't see why they could not limit FR projects to those, given that they usually have produced better books.

 

[jdrakeh]

That does sound like an issue and I have to admit I know nothing of how WotC assigns projects. There just are certain writers who I'd expect do not need to do much research to write a book in FR and I don't see why they could not limit FR projects to those, given that they usually have produced better books.

I suspect it's because most of the FR novel authors know little or nothing about writing game supplements (these things are two entirely different beasts), and the few freelance game designers who know FR inside and out are, well. . . freelancers (meaning that they may not be available for a project when WotC needs them).

 

[National Acrobat]

I have run across a couple at the RL game table, and a few in online games that I run. I always throw out the disclaimer for anyone and everyone when I start at Realms game that I don't know nor care to know all of the canon, and that it's 'my realms interpretation', i.e 'objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear, your mileage may vary, see store for details' because I still use the Grey Boxed set from 1E, which was fabulous. It gave little snippets on each area and person, and it was up to the GM to fill in the rest. I've had lots of players thank me for this approach, and I've had a few people decline to play in my realms games online after reading that. A simple sentence like that can make all the difference.

 

[Faraer]

Slightly OT - These tales of Ed - in his own words, usually - always make wonder to what extent his players can actually have enjoyed his game. It just seems so appallingly bad GMing.

Given that his main campaign's still going after 30-odd years. and the uniformly enthusiastic reports of both his regular players and those at convention and library games he's DMed, we know that his players enjoy his DMing very much.

I also wonder about the thinking in TSR at the time they chose Ed and his setting to be, effectively, the new face of TSR, replacing Gygax and Greyhawk. Was this deliberate, moving away from Gygax's pseudo-malevolent GMing & rather bleak setting? Did they not know, or think, about the implications of what we now call Mary Sue-ism? Did they think "Well it's like Gandalf, saving the hobbits. No fun if your hobbit gets killed..."?

You're blowing that one tiny, mischaracterized aspect out of all context and proportion.

But how can players who hate when there DMs railroad, mary sue and everything else even try to ask for them to do better, when the DM can come back with "The creater of the whole damn world agrees this is the RIGHT way to play it"

This is complete fantasy: far from either of those two things, Ed's DMing is extremely open-ended and player-driven; "Suffice it to say that the “home” Realms campaign is far more intrigue and plots upon plots and roleplaying daily life and commerce and politics and the like than it is drawing swords and hacking monsters."

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Heh...I guess someone has to stick up for the canon lawyers...

fair is fair, they are not all bad...

If you're going to say "I run the Forgotten Realms" and pretty much change stuff around, why not at the outset simply say "This is a homebrew that I took elements from FR"

see this is the arguement that makes the most sense...If I go to play in a star trek game, and I am told the Fedration is at war with the vulcons, and that USS Enterpirse B is captianed by Capt Tash Yar...I don't think I could take it seriusly...


See this is why I homebrew most of the time...You see if I say we are playing in FR or Ebberon, or any other setting it sets up some expactations...on the other hand if I say my new world is realms like...it allows the tone without the history...

You're blowing that one tiny, mischaracterized aspect out of all context and proportion.

no, now again I will say I can not provide anything but my word but I have herd these stories before...I cane tell you search for the Tomb pod cast with him...he says that it is the CORRECT way to hanndle Elminster in your games...

This is complete fantasy: far from either of those two things, Ed's DMing is extremely open-ended and player-driven;

Yea , except when Mary sue shows up...becuse gods know that a King will stop what he is doing (screwing over PCs to keep it in perspective) to take an urgent 'call' (not on the phone but in person) from elminster...and all of it is to let the PCs escape when they could not without him...

"Suffice it to say that the “home” Realms campaign is far more intrigue and plots upon plots and roleplaying daily life and commerce and politics and the like than it is drawing swords and hacking monsters."

So give a counter example...an artical he wrote, and interview he gave where elminster...no change that...any of the big superheros of the realms where used in a way that the PCs mattered at all...I ask only 1 example becuse that is all I can give as well...


I thank Gary Gygax, Ed Greenwood, and many others for creating awsome worlds...but that doesn't mean I agree with everything they do.

 

[marune]

"Suffice it to say that the “home” Realms campaign is far more intrigue and plots upon plots and roleplaying daily life and commerce and politics and the like than it is drawing swords and hacking monsters."

There is worse than DMs badly imitating Ed with Mary-Sue characters, the ones trying to replicate this simulationist "roleplaying daily life is so much better than roleplaying combat" style.

Ed's DMing is extremely open-ended and player-driven;

Player-driven is a very good thing, but I'm not sure I am seeing this in THO's reports.

 

[marune]

Yea , except when Mary sue shows up...becuse gods know that a King will stop what he is doing (screwing over PCs to keep it in perspective) to take an urgent 'call' (not on the phone but in person) from elminster...and all of it is to let the PCs escape when they could not without him...

There is one simple of using "powerful" NPCs to save the PC's life without frustrating them : letting the player's call for them !

If Gandalf/Dumbledore/Elminster/etc. comes to the rescue when Frodo/Harry's player call on its relationship to the former (the ending of the fifth Harry Potter book is a good example), the players don't feel useless anymore.

 

[DaveMage]

I can certainly understand why FR "Canon Lawyers" exist.

I mean, they've probably spent a lot of money - not to mention a lot of time - on FR books. It's quite understandable that they'd want to adventure in a world in which they've invested so much.

To have some DM change that which they know is undoubtedly disappointing, and diminsihes the fun they thought they'd have in such a game.

Of course, one doesn't even have to be knowledgable about all the Realms to be a "Canon Lawyer" either. Even if they'd just read a supplement (or novel) or two and know that person X plays a particular part in an area, it could be very disappointing if the DM says person X doesn't exist in that area.

Personally, I think that if a DM is not fully versed in a setting, then they shouldn't run it for knowledgable fans of that setting - unless, of course, the players are fine with the DM's lack of knowledge.