Forked Thread: Mage-Brute (revisited)

Dannyalcatraz

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The main flaw there is that the Heritage (Draconic, Infernal, Fey, etc.) feats have Sorcerer as a prereq- once you have 1 level of that, though, you can apply the feat to any arcane spell slot.

The Sorc also has better casting, at least in the sense of a faster progression into higher-level spells (which do correspondingly more damage). Zero-level spells don't work with the Draconic Breath feat, and the Bard doesn't get a 1st level spell until 2nd level...and that one is a bonus based on a high casting stat.

As for spell competition, the PC in question has 3 basic criteria in spell selection:

1) Spells without somatic components, so they can be cast in armor without penalty.

2) Spells that are otherwise useful- he's generally got blasting covered by his BW.

3) Blasting spells that do things he can't do with his BW AND fit his self-image.

4) Electrical spells in general.

The third one is made easier in that the DM approved a HR that lets casters learn variants of spells that have already been modified by some kind of metamagic without having to know that feat. This lets us have flexibility in spell selection, but still locks down the mechanics of our known spells unless we actually know metamagic feats.

IOW, since he sees himself as a human descendant of a blue dragon (hence his preference for scale mail), and has a lightning BW, he prefers electrically themed blasting spells. (And since he's somewhat of an idiot, he doesn't realize the value of learning energy-based attack spells that AREN'T electrically themed.) So nearly every energy-based attack spell he learns is going to be "metamagically" learned as an electrical spell.

What that all boils down to is that he really doesn't have any "competition" on his spell list- at least not from HIS perspective.

Don't get me wrong- I like the blasting bard idea, and thought about MC into that class. But mechanically and thematically, MC into Marshal (had it been allowed) or Fighter were more on target.
 
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insanogeddon

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You are correct with the the Heritage (Infernal, Fey, Celestial) feats you indeed need Sorcerer level as a prereq.
However with Draconic Heritage there is another option. As stated the feat 'Dragontouched' from dragon magic (if you lack the book can be viewed at http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml). The Dragonfire Channeling feat is also it this book.
It specifically states 'you can select draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your character level'. It even opens up some of the draconic feats to clerics.
1. Bards can wear armour without penalty (any armour if you take the 'battle caster' feat from complete arcane and rely on mitheril)
2. Use spells the bard is hard to beat, they even can cure (thus wands).
3. Granted 'Shout' and 'Greater Shout' is about it for the ole bard.
4. Bards are hard pressed for electric spells, but thats what the breath is good for.
But DMstraight.. gotta go with what makes you fuzzy at the end o the day.
I personally have used Dragon Heritage (Bronze) as a beguiler once having qualified with 'Dragontouched' part due to a like of ..death with sparkles.. part cause I like picking up 'Track' (Few use track as much as they should without tiresome urging, its nifty, and I like feeling I can survive and wont get lost and bested by a forrest at 20th level) and bronze heritage gets you survival as a class skill.

As for electricity madness check the 'Stormcaster' from the environmental book 'Stormwrack' its far too awesome without the goofy rort factor of the Raptorian Cleric/'Skypledged' (races of the wild). Stunning with lightining attacks rocks. I have a Darfellan Druid 6/Stormcaster 4 cohort who as an eagle swoops to the rescue of my group often and inbetween just pinks away with call lightining (flying and minor target combined with 1 spell used per encounter to attack means more healing and ofsets the lower cohort level). His sadly more fun, effective and flexible than my main character.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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Dude- THANK YOU!

I had no idea there was another way to do the Draconic Heritage feat chain- I'm not sure, but I don't think I bought Dragon Magic (my books are in storage while doing a renovation).

That feat opens up a lot of possibilities for the use of other Arcane casters in this build- not just the Bard!

Consider the Battle Sorcerer (assuming the DM rules they don't count as "Sorcerers" for the purposes of the DH prereq), WarMage, Beguiler and Duskblade. Each has Armored Spellcasting and some kind of martial weapon use...and most have more spells and/or acquire them more quickly than the Bard.

Admittedly, they don't match up as well with the "idiot" part of the PC I was designing when I first got the concept in my head, but that just means I can have a little bit more fun and flexibility for future PC designs.
 

insanogeddon

First Post
Another new toy..

Check out 'Dragonpacts' (dragon magic)

Pretty sweet toy... loose a top level spell to get a bunch o (sp) abilities... no more spell faliure or other nonsense holding you back then. Great flavour fodder for a DM to story synergise/arc as well.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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I searched that site- I didn't see any mention of "Dragonpact" or "dragon" and "pact" that seemed to be what you were talking about. Do you have a link and/or page reference?
 

insanogeddon

First Post
Clarification

That site was mentioned specifically for the looking up of feats if you don't have your books.

'Dragonpacts' aren't feats and so not on that site. They are an option in the (Dragon Magic) book that allows you to trade a high level slot to a dragon thru a ritual getting in return spell like abilities with draconic theme.

Need the book for elaboration.. or an hour in your rpg shop.. or shifty book downloading corrupt powers!
 

Dannyalcatraz

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Gotcha- already started looking at my local used book stores- no love there.

I know a couple of places that probably have it in stock, though.
 

insanogeddon

First Post
The final solution !!

EDIT: Post removed by Admin. Insanogeddon, I know you meant to help, but we don't allow links to illegal file-sharing sites here; nor do we allow posts recommending them. I've removed your link as a result. ~ Piratecat


I had it inwisble just in case. Dam your true seeing !!

consider me spanked
 
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Dannyalcatraz

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I picked it up at Dallas' own Game Chest- a great repository for OoP games...as well as the current stuff.

Their only failing? They're in a major mall...which means ZERO discounts.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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Upon further reflection, I'm not sure that the Dragontouched feat works the way you think it does- the way I wish it did.

I say that because Dragontouched does give you access to any Feat that has "dragonkind" as a prereq, but the feats from CompMage- as well as several in Dragon Magic itself- have "Draconic Heritage" as a prereq, as opposed to the more general "dragonkind" prereq.
 

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